spyderco sharpmaker .... not impresed help me love this thing

Reignman

Reignman

Joined
Oct 18, 2012
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So basically, I've tried to sharpen a few and my 0350 is now dulled worse than when I started, my para 2 is "paper cutting sharp " which is to say it barely cuts through paper....


Few questions:

If the knife is already somewhat sharp, just touch it up on step 3&4?

What kind of pressure if any should I be using? I was keeping enough to have control and not force it but any tips are appreciated.

On step four (flat white stone) should the entire surface be touching the blade?


Not super stoked with the results thus far as it seems to really only work the fine edge without touching anything else?
 
As I just posted on another thread, this may be your problem, sans strop recommendation.

"The Spyderco is great as long as your blades are profiled at 40* or 30* inclusive before you use them on the device. It will not profile them (well, not very easily) so they should be at those angles before use. Think of them as a maintenance device. The strop and the compounds will not sharpen your knife either. They will refine what is already done by the Spyderco if used properly. Just my thoughts on your kit. Others may prove me wrong."

Blessings,

Omar
 
Jdavis has a good video on using the sharpmaker, he covers what you can do if the factory bevels aren't exactly 30* (he demonstrates using a Sage 1, I'd embed the video but I can't from my phone)

I use my weps to reprofile my blades to 30* and then the sharpmaker to quickly and easily touch them up (the ultra fine rods are worth the mone!y)
 
Just watched the Jdavis videos, nicely done and informative. I too, just picked up a Sharpmaker and he explains and shows in detail what this thing does well, and it's limitations. Thanks guys.
 
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Ok. It is an absolute must to do what I call "indexing" your edges to the SharpMaker first. They really should have called it the Sharpkeeper. It is a great tool for what it can do. It is absolutely not the tool you want to reprofile an edge. Very few production knives come with either even or very acute edges. Most are 40 degrees inclusive or more. Even you decent brands don't worry too much about their edges which is kind of frustrating unless you can sharpen.

What I do on all my knives is I reprofile on DMT plates to 25 or 27.5 degrees inclusive. Then I do a microbevel with a Sharpmaker of either 30 or 40. For those that don't like to microbevel you will need to just freehand (or use some other aggressive technology like an Edgepro) and get that bevel spot on to 30 or 40. It's OK if it's a little less (28 or 38). But if it is a little more 32 or 42 let's say, you'll just be grinding of the shoulder of the bevel and your hand will give out before you've removed enough metal to make the knife sharper. That fixed bevel is both the boon and the bane of the Sharpmaker. I am a big fan of Spyderco and own many but that business on the Sharpmaker CD about Spydercos being 30 degrees is horse hockey. I have had exactly one that was maybe about 32 or 33 and very sharp and very even...a Manix 2 XL. There I didn't need to reprofile I just microbeveled to 40 and am very happy. All my others, even the Military, would not index even on the 40 so I ended up doing my thing and flattening down that edge and then microbeveling back up to 40. A very narrow (I mean a fraction of a millimeter) 40 degree microbevel on a very flat blade cuts like crazy and stays sharp.

I dream of a steel Sharpmaker like tool with a central dial the precisely dials in the angles of both sides simultaneously to any angle desired. It would have to cost about $500 to be strong and precise enough.

Don't give up on the Sharpmaker. Once you get the edges indexed, it is a very good tool for quick touch ups and those touch ups will be scary sharp and be done in just a few minutes.
 
The best way to get to love the SM is to start with an edge that's already in decent shape. In other words, symmetrical and fully apexed before it became a little 'dull'. The tool is best at taking a decent edge, and turning it into a wicked-sharp edge relatively quickly, often within 10 passes or less. It's more a touch-up and regular maintenance tool, as opposed to a stand-alone all-in-one system (regardless of how it's marketed as such). It doesn't do well at full re-profiling tasks, because it's abrasives aren't very aggressive.

A knife's edge doesn't have to be exactly 30° or 40° to be sharpened on the Sharpmaker. If it is, that's fine. But the SM will handle any edge that's at least within the angle limits (less than 40°, and still better if equal to or less than 30°). It's a much, much easier tool to use, when the existing edge angle is within 30°. All you have to do then, is focus on keeping the spine of the blade vertical (90° to the tabletop), and let the tool do it's job. If the edge angle is exactly 30° inclusive and perfectly symmetrical (exactly 15° per side), then the edge bevels should be perfectly flush to the rods at the 30° (back bevel) setting. Same obviously applies, if edge angle and setting used are both at 40°. If the edge angle is somewhat less than the setting used, you'll just be micro-bevelling the edge. There's a big plus to that, in that micro-bevelling can be done very, very quickly, within perhaps 5 passes or less at very, very light pressure. More often than not, this is also when you'll really see the edge sharpness go to a whole new level, if done correctly.

For pressure used, always (always, always) keep it light. When I use mine, my mindset is geared towards using a motion and pressure that would emulate sweeping loose dust from the surface of the rods, using the blade edge. No heavier pressure is ever needed, and would be counter-productive anyway. It'll just roll/chip the edge, if pressure is excessive.


David
 
I agree with the statements above. I sharpened 3 knives, CS AUS8 and VG1 that were dull, and a Spyderco CTS BD1 that was at about 80% off of the usual factory sharpened edge. The SM put a good user edge on the two Cold Steels using all 4 steps, but put a screaming sharp edge on the Manix with only about 10 passes each on the flat side of the Grey and white stones. You guys are right, it's a Sharpkeeper more than a Sharpmaker with the basic kit.
 
Guys, great, informative posts, I REALLY appreciate that.

How can I tell if a blades angle is right? Ie when should or shouldn't I use the 30-40 ? The DVD leaves a large amount of questions to someone like myself who isn't afraid take their time and do it right if the rewards are there.

I have a pm2, a 0350 and NONE of them can cut paper after using it but they both "feel" sharp. I'm so confused as if I continue on the white stone it seems futile.
 
Use a sharpie and color the edge to see where the stone is hitting.
 
It takes some time to get the hang of this, you will get the hang of it where you can feel when a swipe is good. Just use the edges not the flats on the 350 until you are are better. I experienced the same thing took me hours and hours until I figured the technique out for the 0350. It really is getting the feel for it and practice is the only way you will learn it.
 
Reignman said:
Guys, great, informative posts, I REALLY appreciate that.

How can I tell if a blades angle is right? Ie when should or shouldn't I use the 30-40 ? The DVD leaves a large amount of questions to someone like myself who isn't afraid take their time and do it right if the rewards are there.

I have a pm2, a 0350 and NONE of them can cut paper after using it but they both "feel" sharp. I'm so confused as if I continue on the white stone it seems futile.
Click to expand...

As mentioned, a Sharpie marker (or any other similar) can be used to color the bevels, after which you can watch to see where the ink comes off, in contact with the rods. If the ink is coming off only near/at the shoulders of the bevels, but not at the edge itself, then the blade's edge angle is wider than the setting being used on the SM. If the ink comes off at the cutting edge, but not near the shoulder, it means the blade's edge angle is somewhat less (narrower) than the setting used. If you're real lucky, you'll see the ink being uniformly removed along the full width of the bevel, from edge to shoulder. That means your bevel is flush to the rod, which implies the edge angle is equal to the angle setting being used.

If your PM2 and (ZT?)0350 both 'feel' sharp, but aren't cutting well, you might be feeling a burr/wire edge that's folded to one side. If so, you'll need to figure out to which side it's folded. Very slowly slide a fingernail/thumbnail down the side of the bevel, toward the edge, and see if it catches on the burr (if present) at the edge. It'll catch on the side to which it's folded, but it'll slide over/past it from the other side. If you can detect it there in this manner, make a few very light passes on the SM rods, on only the side to which the burr is folded, and then re-check for the burr in the same manner. The idea is to very gently abrade the burr/wire away, using very light pressure. If pressure is to heavy, it'll more likely just fold the burr to the opposite side.

(Edit: If your ZT-0350 is like mine, it's quite possible the edge angle from the factory was rather wide, and re-profiling could greatly improve it. That's a whole other topic in itself... )


David
 
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0350 profile eh? Ie the diamond stones?

My buddy has a lanky, what should I profile these to get them able to be finished and maintained on the sharpmaker?

Is 30 then a 40 bevel good or vice versa?
 
Reignman said:
0350 profile eh? Ie the diamond stones?

My buddy has a lanky, what should I profile these to get them able to be finished and maintained on the sharpmaker?

Is 30 then a 40 bevel good or vice versa?
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Ideally, profiling to 30° is what I'd do. And diamond hones would be best for that. If the Lansky is a diamond set, it'll get it done. If not, it'll be very slow-going. Setting the edge at 30° would put it in good shape for the Sharpmaker, with which you could do a 40° micro bevel (if you want to; but you don't have to).

BUT, first find out if you really need to go that far. It may be, your ZT-0350 has a better edge angle than mine did (I used a Lansky to re-bevel it, BTW). Re-bevelling it with the Lansky would be a very big job (a few hours, possibly), so you'd have to decide if it's worth it or not.


David
 
What's the benefit of a back bevel? I should be going to 30 then 40 or vice versa David? Ty so much man! Anyone who can guide me in the right direction is my hero right about now


I just took a "Crappy" Browning fixed blade ($15 dollar walmart akin knife) and Like just about everything I've touched, it has a smooth, consistent edge however it just isn't even close to slicing through paper. It won't hang a fingernail, won't grab, just flat out won't get sharp enough with me operating it.

Will the Ultra Fine's bring it there?

I don't understand the difference between the 30 degree and 40 degree so I've been going based off what the sharpie says. Once I marked it, the 40 degree was taking off just the edge and again, she's sharp... but not "spyderco" sharp as some would say.
 
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Reignman said:
What's the benefit of a back bevel? I should be going to 30 then 40 or vice versa David? Ty so much man! Anyone who can guide me in the right direction is my hero right about now
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The back bevel at 30 essentially gives you a thinner overall edge profile (better slicing), and then adding a micro bevel at 40 will help make that edge a little more durable. With S30V, unless you're using the blade real hard, it should hold up fine at 30 without the micro bevel. If using both, do the back bevel first (30), then apply the micro (40). In fact, you may just use it at 30 for a while, and see how durable the edge is for you. If you think it's not staying sharp long enough, add the 40 micro bevel and go from there.


David
 
Reignman said:
(...) I just took a "Crappy" Browning fixed blade ($15 dollar walmart akin knife) and Like just about everything I've touched, it has a smooth, consistent edge however it just isn't even close to slicing through paper. It won't hang a fingernail, won't grab, just flat out won't get sharp enough with me operating it.

Will the Ultra Fine's bring it there? (...)
Click to expand...

It may be you're not quite apexing the edge. If 'sharpness' is by feel alone, I'd suspect that might be the case. If the edge is apexed, it should slice paper at least, though possibly with some slipping/catching (burrs). The burr along the full length of the edge would verify the apex has been reached. If not seeing that, it's likely more work is needed on the SM medium rods. Should be able to slice paper straight from the first stage of sharpening, whether it be on stones or with finer hones like the Sharpmaker (should get there from the medium/brown hones). Once the apex is verified with the burr, then the following hones (F/UF) would be used to refine it, and clean up the burr.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
It may be you're not quite apexing the edge. If 'sharpness' is by feel alone, I'd suspect that might be the case. If the edge is apexed, it should slice paper at least, though possibly with some slipping/catching (burrs). The burr along the full length of the edge would verify the apex has been reached. If not seeing that, it's likely more work is needed on the SM medium rods. Should be able to slice paper straight from the first stage of sharpening, whether it be on stones or with finer hones like the Sharpmaker (should get there from the medium/brown hones). Once the apex is verified with the burr, then the following hones (F/UF) would be used to refine it, and clean up the burr.


David
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How many strokes roughly per side are you putting and what pressure?
So I basically "Want" to lay the edge over on the knife? Again, this is my first go at sharpening and right now, you're my best knowledgeable source, I truly appreciate all your time and guidance.
 
Take a q-tip and slide it along the edge of the blade lightly. If it hangs up, the blade still needs work, as the burr is still there and needs more work to reach the apex without the burr. When you have the blade good and sharp with no burr left, the q-tip should smoothly slide along the blade. Then try your paper slicing, and refine from there. (stropping etc.) Works great for me.

Blessings,

Omar
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
If the edge angle is somewhat less than the setting used, you'll just be micro-bevelling the edge. There's a big plus to that, in that micro-bevelling can be done very, very quickly, within perhaps 5 passes or less at very, very light pressure. More often than not, this is also when you'll really see the edge sharpness go to a whole new level, if done correctly.

For pressure used, always (always, always) keep it light. When I use mine, my mindset is geared towards using a motion and pressure that would emulate sweeping loose dust from the surface of the rods, using the blade edge. No heavier pressure is ever needed, and would be counter-productive anyway. It'll just roll/chip the edge, if pressure is excessive.


David
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David,

Let me please ask you about what you said above. As to the first statement, are you saying that a very small microbevel will produce a much greater degree of sharpness than, say, a straight 30 degree inclusive edge?

As for always always using light pressure, I understand that as a general proposition with the SM. But, from one of the J. Davis videos, and if my faulty memory serves, I believe you may also have talked about it in another thread, I have found that in one circumstance, a moderate amount of pressure on the SM can be useful. What I'm talking about is an edge that has gotten quite dull, where "regular" SM technique is going to take a long time to bring it back. I've found that the back and forth/up-and-down "rub-a-dub" method on the flats of the brown stones can really speed up the process. Afterwards, it should be followed with the normal (downstroke) SM technique, and light pressure.

I would be interested in your further thoughts on these two points.

(BTW, you were sure right about the Kai/Japan Indian Ford lockbacks. I have mine in my pocket as I type this and have really enjoyed it---really excellent quality for the money.:thumbup:)

Thanks,

Andrew
 
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So I took it out again after watching countless youtube videos and spent about an hour watching, taking notes etc.

Well, my 0350 it either touches the very edge of the knife or the shoulder... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I want a nice "Contact patch" don't I???...

Im assuming just about everything I've tried to sharpen is so far off from what this sharpener is made for however..... How in the hell can that be?

Why would it be barely on the tip of the blade at one angle and then the shoulder on the other?


Im so lost.:barf:
 
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