Spyderco support issues

H

harlequinn

Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
21
Hi,

I just communicated with Spyderco about a stainless steel ATR. It turns out that they don't have parts for at least this older knife. I'm greatly disappointed with this - it's not that hard to fill a small box with parts for the few people who will need parts over the years - even for every model they've ever released it is not an unreasonable proposition.

Does anyone know if Spyderco offers support for any superseded knives at all?

Does any company out there keep parts for older knives?

Cheers,

Harley.

(I first posted this in the 'maintenance, tinkering, embellishment' section but I was directed here as a good starting point).
 
Do you know how many models of knives they have made since they started making knives? It wouldnt be a small box; what you are asking for is totally unreasonable and unrealistic.
 
.... screws are tiny..... they could take up a 5 by 10 box in there warehouse dedicated to discontinued models im paying 150$ for a knife i dont see why they cant maintenance it. that being said ive never had a problem ive asked for screw a couple times and always got them.
 
1st1903 said:
Do you know how many models of knives they have made since they started making knives? It wouldnt be a small box; what you are asking for is totally unreasonable and unrealistic.
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I don't know how many models they have released. Do you?

Lets make some guesses. They've been around 36 years. Lets assume they've released an average of 50 models a years. That's 1800 models. Like I'm suggesting, a small box, say 150mm x 150mm x 200mm (6" x 6" x 8") is used to store parts for each model. That's about 8 cubic meters of boxes. That would easily fit in a very small store room.

In reality I doubt they've released that many models. On top of that most models each year share a significant amount of parts. So the actual storage requirements would be a fraction of what I'm overestimating.

Unreasonable? No.

Unrealistic? No.
 
ChrisD123 said:
.... screws are tiny..... they could take up a 5 by 10 box in there warehouse dedicated to discontinued models im paying 150$ for a knife i dont see why they cant maintenance it. that being said ive never had a problem ive asked for screw a couple times and always got them.
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No, not quite as simple as that I'm afraid. If it was, anyone and their uncle would own a manufacturing facility. Spyderco has implemented what they call "CQI" since the beginning. It stands for Constant Quality Improvement. Ever wonder why there is a Delica, Delica, 2, Delica 3, and a Delica 4? each version has improvements made over the previous version. Be it blade shape changes, lock geometries, ergonomics, or lock types. By that logic, when you make improvements on something, there is no need to keep the older around much. It makes you no money, and takes up space. Focusing on the new and continually refining, ensures a good product and the ability to stay competitive in the market (kind of a big deal to a basic business model).

I think that not being able to provide a replacement blade on some (more common/current) models for a minimal charge is a letdown. Many other companies can and will reblade a knife for a minimal cost or even half the cost of the knife. Others will send you springs, clips, and screws for free even on a very old model. Unfortunately, Spyderco doesn't do this. By comparison, Spyderco is a smaller company than Buck, Benchmade, Kershaw/ZT, and maybe even Emerson. So there must be a reason for this. In the end, there are advantages and disadvantages to every company.
 
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I sent a Case brand knife back to their factory. Not long afterwards I received my knife back in the same condition as when I sent it with a note that said they could not fix my knife because they no longer had parts for my knife. My knife is a model that is still in production now but the current parts would not fit my "vintage" knife.
 
ChrisD123 said:
.... screws are tiny..... they could take up a 5 by 10 box in there warehouse dedicated to discontinued models im paying 150$ for a knife i dont see why they cant maintenance it. that being said ive never had a problem ive asked for screw a couple times and always got them.
Click to expand...

My problem is the spacers in the handle for my ATR. I went to take apart the knife for maintenance and the t6 torx bolts had fused into the spacers. Nothing would release them (no solvents or force). Eventually the tiny t6 head stripped so I had to cut off the spacer. For the spacers that did come off, two had mild corrosion on the bolts. This is because they did not put a drain hole in the spacer which can cause crevice corrosion or uniform corrosion. Plus they didn't use any grease to put the bolts in (grease protects against moisture ingress).

So they don't have these spacers. I'll have to have some machined up or try another approach to fix the problem.
 
The ATR is all open, all you had to do is wash it out.
 
There is no guarantee that a blade from this month's production will fit a knife from last month's production. Spyderco makes little changes all the time. A small box of parts? How many of each part is enough? Remember, every one of those parts is money locked away, money that will probably never be recovered.

If you think it is such a wonderful idea for them to sink all that money into parts for obsolete models, why don't you contact Sal and volunteer to buy fifty of each model, unassembled, and warehouse them for him. Of course, you'll need to buy fifty more every time they make any small or large change to the model. And you'll need to track all the parts for each change of each model. Then of course you'll need some way of identifying the specific model and change when a knife is sent in, so you can sell him the correct part at your cost. You'll have to be able to do so instantly and with 100% accuracy, because customers want it right and right now.

How many models have they relased? About 200. Does that tell the whole story? Not even close. Take a look at this picture, and realize there are no duplicates.

DSCF1022.jpg


How many models do you see? C07, C51. The rest are variations, and that's at most a third of the variations produced for the C07 Police. Stil think warehousing parts for all those would be easy?
 
yablanowitz said:
There is no guarantee that a blade from this month's production will fit a knife from last month's production. Spyderco makes little changes all the time. A small box of parts? How many of each part is enough? Remember, every one of those parts is money locked away, money that will probably never be recovered.

If you think it is such a wonderful idea for them to sink all that money into parts for obsolete models, why don't you contact Sal and volunteer to buy fifty of each model, unassembled, and warehouse them for him. Of course, you'll need to buy fifty more every time they make any small or large change to the model. And you'll need to track all the parts for each change of each model. Then of course you'll need some way of identifying the specific model and change when a knife is sent in, so you can sell him the correct part at your cost. You'll have to be able to do so instantly and with 100% accuracy, because customers want it right and right now.

How many models have they relased? About 200. Does that tell the whole story? Not even close. Take a look at this picture, and realize there are no duplicates.

How many models do you see? C07, C51. The rest are variations, and that's at most a third of the variations produced for the C07 Police. Stil think warehousing parts for all those would be easy?
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Why would I volunteer to buy 50 knives and store them? An absurd proposition.

How many of each part is required is determined by how many of the product was sold and the estimated failure rate and customer abuse rate. It's not that hard to work out. Those parts are a very small amount of money locked away. In return you have happy customers by being able to supply parts.

They may indeed make constant changes to their models. But as you said, they are small changes, which means most of the parts are exchangeable between models.

Model and part tracking is not that hard. Companies do it all over the world with off the shelf inventory management software. Models are identified by serial numbers.

200 models with with small changes in production over time you say. My gross overestimate was 1800 models - yet still an achievable figure.

So yes, I think warehousing parts would be easy. Trivially easy.
 
Car manufacturers don't even do that, they only make parts for 10 years after the model is released(they have to by law).


It would be inconceivable for a small company to do this. Also do you know how many sprint runs/variation Spyderco makes? Just in the pic above their are 19 variations of the C07. It would be very difficult and expensive to keep a big volume of spare parts. They keep a certain number and once they are gone they're gone.
 
rycen said:
The ATR is all open, all you had to do is wash it out.
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^^^This.

If there is any issue with a Spyderco knife that needs repair/replacement under warranty, Sal and company will make things right. However, by taking the ATR apart, you voided the warranty thus creating another issue.
 
Shadow213 said:
^^^This.

If there is any issue with a Spyderco knife that needs repair/replacement under warranty, Sal and company will make things right. However, by taking the ATR apart, you voided the warranty thus creating another issue.
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I don't want warranty repair. Sending the knife to America from my location is too cost prohibitive. Even if I had sent it too them they've already admitted to not having the parts so at best they'd offer to replace it with another model (that's if they didn't decide the internal corrosion was my fault).

What I want is the parts. The issue was created by poor design and manufacturing. I kept the knife meticulously clean and thoroughly dry. Unfortunately all steels rust. And poor design can lead to hidden corrosion problems - like in this case.

PS: In America, taking a product apart does not void warranty. In Australia where I live, it also does not void warranty. Me chopping off the corrosion welded parts voids the warranty for those parts only (none of the other parts were damaged during this operation).

Clarification: your statutory warranty is not voided, even if the voluntary warranty offered by the manufacturer is. So they might tell you it's void when in reality it isn't. In America you'll probably need to take them to court. In Australia you used to have to take them to court but the new legislation allows a government body to simply force the issue bypassing the courts.
 
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My first two questions that nobody has addressed still stand:

Does anyone know if Spyderco offers support for any superseded knives at all?

Does any company out there keep parts for older knives?

Thanks.
 
For a knife the old, I doubt it, you could have a custom spacer made. They wouldn't send your free parts anyway, you also might ask them if they know what size screws they are and find them some other place. Find one of the local knife "pimpers" to help.

harlequinn said:
My first two questions that nobody has addressed still stand:

Does anyone know if Spyderco offers support for any superseded knives at all?

Does any company out there keep parts for older knives?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
harlequinn said:
I don't want warranty repair. Sending the knife to America from my location is too cost prohibitive. Even if I had sent it too them they've already admitted to not having the parts so at best they'd offer to replace it with another model (that's if they didn't decide the internal corrosion was my fault).

What I want is the parts. The issue was created by poor design and manufacturing. I kept the knife meticulously clean and thoroughly dry. Unfortunately all steels rust. And poor design can lead to hidden corrosion problems - like in this case.

PS: In America, taking a product apart does not void warranty. In Australia where I live, it also does not void warranty. Me chopping off the corrosion welded parts voids the warranty for those parts only (none of the other parts were damaged during this operation).
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First of all, yes, you did void the warranty....from the Spyderco website, HERE;

•Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.


And I don't believe that you viewed the ATR as a poor design, or as being poorly manufactured, until you took it apart. :rolleyes:
 
espnazi said:
Car manufacturers don't even do that, they only make parts for 10 years after the model is released(they have to by law).

It would be inconceivable for a small company to do this. Also do you know how many sprint runs/variation Spyderco makes? Just in the pic above their are 19 variations of the C07. It would be very difficult and expensive to keep a big volume of spare parts. They keep a certain number and once they are gone they're gone.
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Yes, car companies do do it. Most governments wisened up and introduced legislation to hold car makers accountable. In Australia new laws were recently introduced that help force manufacturers make all goods fit for their expected lifetime. I.e. even if you put a "1 year warranty" sticker on the goods, if the government regulatory body thinks that the product should last 10 years then the warranty is 10 years.

Why is it inconceivable for a small company to do this? I don't know how many sprint runs and variations they make - do you? It wouldn't be difficult or expensive to keep parts. Other companies all over the world do this. I expect someone making a very simple product (from an engineering view point) to be able to achieve this. You don't need to keep a large volume of parts if you are making quality products. You only need to do a statistical analysis to figure out how many of each part you'll need before the expected demand over time for these parts tapers off.
 
harlequinn said:
My problem is the spacers in the handle for my ATR. I went to take apart the knife for maintenance and the t6 torx bolts had fused into the spacers. Nothing would release them (no solvents or force). Eventually the tiny t6 head stripped so I had to cut off the spacer.
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I'm a little fuzzy on what you did to the spacers, but usually when you strip a screw/bolt, you want to drill it out with a small drill bit. The screw/bolt is already a loss but you can usually remove it without damaging the mating parts. As you know now, the spacers are important, the torx bolts aren't.
 
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