Spyderco support issues

[harlequinn]

I'm a little fuzzy on what you did to the spacers, but usually when you strip a screw/bolt, you want to drill it out with a small drill bit. The screw/bolt is already a loss but you can usually remove it without damaging the mating parts. As you know now, the spacers are important, the torx bolts aren't.

I decided they were too small to drill out without damaging the thread in the spacer - which would put me in the same position as cutting them off. To give you an idea of how hard it would be to drill out, it is a bolt about 2mm in diameter (.078"). The total drill bit diameter would need to be about 1.5mm (0.059") and would need to be drilled from the head side of the bolt. The spacer side would need to be clamped to stop rotation of the spacer, also preventing drilling from this side. The drill positioning would have to be very precise, if it was off by a tiny amount it would damage the thread.

On top of all of that, I would need to remove the remaining bolt thread from the inside of the spacer - and remember it is corrosion welded there. Basically almost impossible to remove without damaging the thread.

So, long story short, after a quick cost benefit analysis, I removed them from the spacer side of the handle via other means.

 

[harlequinn]

First of all, yes, you did void the warranty....from the Spyderco website, HERE;

•Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.


And I don't believe that you viewed the ATR as a poor design, or as being poorly manufactured, until you took it apart.

As I wrote above (my apologies - you may not have seen that - I edited it after your post but before replying to this), I may have broken their voluntary warranty, but I have not broken any statutory warranties for the knife. This is certainly true in Australia (where the goods were sold and the laws to which Spyderco are subject to - enforceable laws since the Australia/USA Free Trade Agreement) and mainly true in the USA - it varies state by state there and you would have to take the company to court if a dispute arises.

Well, you're right, I didn't think that part was poorly designed or manufactured until it was disassembled. The rest of the knife is pretty stellar. This one part (the spacer and use of t6 torx bolts) was poorly designed and that's that.

 

[harlequinn]

For a knife the old, I doubt it, you could have a custom spacer made. They wouldn't send your free parts anyway, you also might ask them if they know what size screws they are and find them some other place. Find one of the local knife "pimpers" to help.

I think you are right - I'll have to have custom spacers made.

I was quite willing to pay for any parts - I don't expect something for nothing.

 

[JNewell]

I don't think any knife manufacturer drill drain holes in stand-offs, and I've never found any kind of lube/anti-corr on threads. They're either dry or have thread locker.

The answer to your question about parts, based on my experience, is that there is no rule at all, just luck. Some companies have parts for some knives for some period of time, but it's just luck of the draw.

My problem is the spacers in the handle for my ATR. I went to take apart the knife for maintenance and the t6 torx bolts had fused into the spacers. Nothing would release them (no solvents or force). Eventually the tiny t6 head stripped so I had to cut off the spacer. For the spacers that did come off, two had mild corrosion on the bolts. This is because they did not put a drain hole in the spacer which can cause crevice corrosion or uniform corrosion. Plus they didn't use any grease to put the bolts in (grease protects against moisture ingress).

So they don't have these spacers. I'll have to have some machined up or try another approach to fix the problem.

 

[harlequinn]

I don't think any knife manufacturer drill drain holes in stand-offs, and I've never found any kind of lube/anti-corr on threads. They're either dry or have thread locker.

The answer to your question about parts, based on my experience, is that there is no rule at all, just luck. Some companies have parts for some knives for some period of time, but it's just luck of the draw.

Thanks - that's very helpful information.

I'm not surprised that they don't drill drain holes or lube them. Holes add complexity and cost for low returns in extra reliability. Grease allows greater torque on the bolt and offers anti-corrosion and anti-seizing properties but doesn't offer the same reassurance as thread-lock in not loosing the bolts (and therefore keeping warranty claims lower).

One of mankind's oldest and most valued tools is now pretty much a disposable item. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

Thanks again for answering my questions - it's very useful information for my future purchases.

 

[harlequinn]

First of all, yes, you did void the warranty....from the Spyderco website, HERE;

•Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.

Interestingly enough - reading their own words - it does not say that the warranty is void. It says their "warranty does not cover damage caused by ...... disassembly". So all the other parts are still covered by their voluntary warranty since none of them were damaged by the disassembly or spacer removal.

Of course - I don't consider removing the spacers as damage to the knife at all. The spacers were already permanently damaged - by corrosion. I removed the damaged spacers - the fact I cut them off is moot if they were already unrecoverable.

I'm not altogether disappointed they don't have the part - now I get to have a semi-custom knife....

PS - you may not have read it above but my apologies to you - I added information to a previous post after you had replied to it - confusing the matter a little.

 

[Sithus1966]

I think your best bet is to make them yourself of find someone to make them. Some places make them for sale, don't know if you have any options there.

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=60_91_244
Shipping from this company to Australia is really unreasonable and not really worth it. 4x the price of what I think it should cost.

I'm wondering what the size of the standoffs are in the ATR? Maybe they make something similar for a current line model that would fit.

 

[Morrow]

Taking the knife apart voids the warranty, anywhere. just ask Spyderco, or any other knife company.

Not true. There are several production knife companies who's warranty is NOT voided by taking their knives apart.

 

[JNewell]

Here's another tangentially related thought that may or may not help. IME there is in the knife industry nihil novum sub sole, at least in the production world. Applied to your problem, I would guess (that's guess, not predict nor guarantee) that knife parts suppliers might well have the fasteners and standoffs that you need. Shipping may be prohibitive, though, since I gather you're in Australia.

Thanks - that's very helpful information.

I'm not surprised that they don't drill drain holes or lube them. Holes add complexity and cost for low returns in extra reliability. Grease allows greater torque on the bolt and offers anti-corrosion and anti-seizing properties but doesn't offer the same reassurance as thread-lock in not loosing the bolts (and therefore keeping warranty claims lower).

One of mankind's oldest and most valued tools is now pretty much a disposable item. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

Thanks again for answering my questions - it's very useful information for my future purchases.

 

[Shadow213]

As I wrote above (my apologies - you may not have seen that - I edited it after your post but before replying to this), I may have broken their voluntary warranty, but I have not broken any statutory warranties for the knife. This is certainly true in Australia (where the goods were sold and the laws to which Spyderco are subject to - enforceable laws since the Australia/USA Free Trade Agreement) and mainly true in the USA - it varies state by state there and you would have to take the company to court if a dispute arises.

Well, you're right, I didn't think that part was poorly designed or manufactured until it was disassembled. The rest of the knife is pretty stellar. This one part (the spacer and use of t6 torx bolts) was poorly designed and that's that.

What your problem comes down to is that, in your opinion; it's Spyderco's fault that you have rust on your knife, it is their fault that you had to void your warranty by taking the knife apart for 'maintenance', it's also their fault for producing defective parts on a knife that you apparently liked before your disassembly and most of all, it is Spyderco's fault for not being able to remedy your problem due to their not stocking parts on a knife that was discontinued years ago.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm in many situations, and for many people, nowadays for problems that occur in their lives.......it's always someone else's fault.

I agree with other members that have recommended you find someone that can manufacture standoffs for the ATR, that would be your best bet. And if this situation keeps you from purchasing other Spyderco knives, don't worry, there are many knifeknuts that discover Spyderco and their 'ugly' knives everyday.

And if you decide to take Spyderco to court for a 'defective' product......good luck.

***Edited to add; I had an experience with Spyderco customer service many years ago, where I sent in an old SE Endura for resharpening and ended up having it replaced with a new knife due to an issue that I wasn't even aware of, can't remember the exact reason at the moment. IMO, the best way to have handled your situation was to send in the ATR with an explanation of your situation/concerns about rust. Again, from my personal experience, Spyderco would have contacted you and given you a choice of what you'd like done with the ATR. Those choices would be; 1. knife would be returned to you, as is, after they would have done their best to remedy the problem(offered if knife has sentimental value to you.), or 2. knife would be replaced with another Spyderco of equal value.

Of course, if they would have damaged the screws and standoffs during disassembly, the responsibility would have fallen on them to make things right, in one way or another.

 

[marthinus]

As I wrote above (my apologies - you may not have seen that - I edited it after your post but before replying to this), I may have broken their voluntary warranty, but I have not broken any statutory warranties for the knife. This is certainly true in Australia (where the goods were sold and the laws to which Spyderco are subject to - enforceable laws since the Australia/USA Free Trade Agreement) and mainly true in the USA - it varies state by state there and you would have to take the company to court if a dispute arises.

Well, you're right, I didn't think that part was poorly designed or manufactured until it was disassembled. The rest of the knife is pretty stellar. This one part (the spacer and use of t6 torx bolts) was poorly designed and that's that.

Free Trade Agreement is far more complicated and most cases are in favour of the country of origin. This case USA and their laws will overule those where the product is sold.

Sorry bud. But.....it needs to be said. You are s... Out of luck. Take it to a local knife maker and see if they can help you.

 

[Mountain Mike]

No matter how you slice it (no pun intended), it's cost prohibitive. So yes, financially, it is unreasonable.

 

[cevtv]

What your problem comes down to is that, in your opinion; it's Spyderco's fault that you have rust on your knife, it is their fault that you had to void your warranty by taking the knife apart for 'maintenance', it's also their fault for producing defective parts on a knife that you apparently liked before your disassembly and most of all, it is Spyderco's fault for not being able to remedy your problem due to their not stocking parts on a knife that was discontinued years ago.

Don't forget that it's Spyderco's fault that he lives in Australia, too......

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Taking the knife apart voids the warranty, anywhere. just ask Spyderco, or any other knife company.

Uhh, no. Spyderco is actually one of few companies that implement that policy.

 

[harlequinn]

What your problem comes down to is that, in your opinion; it's Spyderco's fault that you have rust on your knife, it is their fault that you had to void your warranty by taking the knife apart for 'maintenance', it's also their fault for producing defective parts on a knife that you apparently liked before your disassembly and most of all, it is Spyderco's fault for not being able to remedy your problem due to their not stocking parts on a knife that was discontinued years ago.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the norm in many situations, and for many people, nowadays for problems that occur in their lives.......it's always someone else's fault.

I agree with other members that have recommended you find someone that can manufacture standoffs for the ATR, that would be your best bet. And if this situation keeps you from purchasing other Spyderco knives, don't worry, there are many knifeknuts that discover Spyderco and their 'ugly' knives everyday.

And if you decide to take Spyderco to court for a 'defective' product......good luck.

***Edited to add; I had an experience with Spyderco customer service many years ago, where I sent in an old SE Endura for resharpening and ended up having it replaced with a new knife due to an issue that I wasn't even aware of, can't remember the exact reason at the moment. IMO, the best way to have handled your situation was to send in the ATR with an explanation of your situation/concerns about rust. Again, from my personal experience, Spyderco would have contacted you and given you a choice of what you'd like done with the ATR. Those choices would be; 1. knife would be returned to you, as is, after they would have done their best to remedy the problem(offered if knife has sentimental value to you.), or 2. knife would be replaced with another Spyderco of equal value.

Of course, if they would have damaged the screws and standoffs during disassembly, the responsibility would have fallen on them to make things right, in one way or another.

Your summary is good, but not quite right.

I don't think it is Spyderco's fault that I had rust on the inner handle of my knife. All steels rust (stainless or not). I said that up front.
I don't think it is Spyderco's fault that I had to dismantle it for maintenance. I maintain almost all of my tools as standard procedure.

I do think it is their fault for producing a part with a design defect (by definition if it is badly designed it is their fault).
I do think it was their decision (not fault) to not supply parts. They are not obligated to supply parts (and I never said they were). I just think it makes sense to supply parts to customers willing to pay for them.

In regards to fault - the first thing I did was contact Spyderco and ask for the parts to purchase. I've never even told them I think they produced a faulty part. So I'm the opposite of what you suggest - recognising there is a problem with the knife and trying to rectify it at my own time and expense.

I never suggested I'd take them to court. I wouldn't for two reasons. 1. the cost benefit ratio of taking someone to court for issues like this is poor - that money is better spent making the parts. 2. I'm not in America.

I think your suggestion is valid about sending it to them. But as I said the mailing costs are prohibitive and the knife does in fact have sentimental value.

 

[The Deacon]

Storing parts costs money, both for the parts themselves and for the work needed to keep track of them. Spyderco's normal method of addressing warranty issues is to replace the defective knife and they don't claim their knives are designed to be "user serviceable", so maintaining such an inventory would be of little benefit to them. They generally will have clips and clip screws for older models, and they occasionally may have body screws for older US made models, but that's about it and even that's not guaranteed.

 

[shunsui]

I decided they were too small to drill out without damaging the thread in the spacer - which would put me in the same position as cutting them off. To give you an idea of how hard it would be to drill out, it is a bolt about 2mm in diameter (.078"). The total drill bit diameter would need to be about 1.5mm (0.059") and would need to be drilled from the head side of the bolt. The spacer side would need to be clamped to stop rotation of the spacer, also preventing drilling from this side. The drill positioning would have to be very precise, if it was off by a tiny amount it would damage the thread.

Live and learn. Next time take it to a machine shop and have them drill out the bolt with a reverse drill bit on a drill press. They have bit sizes for that size bolt and smaller. Usually the "rust welded" fragments just fall out, but they have tools for that too. Worst case they could drill and tap your stand offs for the next size bolt.

 

[harlequinn]

Live and learn. Next time take it to a machine shop and have them drill out the bolt with a reverse drill bit on a drill press. They have bit sizes for that size bolt and smaller. Usually the "rust welded" fragments just fall out, but they have tools for that too. Worst case they could drill and tap your stand offs for the next size bolt.

Thanks - good advice.

I'll have to hunt down a machine shop that does high precision machining for small parts for the future. I might need one to machine the parts I need.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi REvDevil,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Hi Harley,

Sorry for your disappointment. I know how it feels. We do carry some parts for some models, once those parts are gone, they're gone. We will try to make other arrangements to satisfy our customers needs, but it isn't always possible. While I don't agree that we made a defective part, it doesn't matter once the part is damaged. When you send a knife to us, we have the experience to service it, we do have hundreds of parts for hundreds of models and we might even be able to rob parts from another knife. It is not our policy to just send parts out, except maybe for clips or an ocassional screw.

The knife is an older model that has been disco'd for quite a while. I don't think even your government would require that we keep parts for a pocket knife that long. I might add that your government has made our knives illegal to import, even the Ladybug....so their credibility might be in question as to sound judgement.

I hope you can get your problem sorted, I guess if you can't find a solution, you can send it to us and we'll see what we can do.

sal

 

[seelow123]

Hi REvDevil,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Hi Harley,

Sorry for your disappointment. I know how it feels. We do carry some parts for some models, once those parts are gone, they're gone. We will try to make other arrangements to satisfy our customers needs, but it isn't always possible. While I don't agree that we made a defective part, it doesn't matter once the part is damaged. When you send a knife to us, we have the experience to service it, we do have hundreds of parts for hundreds of models and we might even be able to rob parts from another knife. It is not our policy to just send parts out, except maybe for clips or an ocassional screw.

The knife is an older model that has been disco'd for quite a while. I don't think even your government would require that we keep parts for a pocket knife that long. I might add that your government has made our knives illegal to import, even the Ladybug....so their credibility might be in question as to sound judgement.

I hope you can get your problem sorted, I guess if you can't find a solution, you can send it to us and we'll see what we can do.

sal

Thanks for chiming in, Sal:thumbup: