Spyderco,taking on a new road?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Camillus did not die because they were not keeping up with technology and the times. They died because their stupid employees decided to vote to go union. The company voted with their pocketbook and closed the company down. The Cuda Maxx line up and the Dominator model proved they could make modern high-end knives.

Stupid is as stupid does. Company did the right thing.

My understanding is they are back again. but now made in china junk. I won't be buying any.
 
Jim malone said:
I am a long time Spyderco collector and user.I have been collecting since the 90's. It seems that a few years ago Spyderco took a turn in a different direction. Instead of making tools for professionals it looks like they are turning into a different direction. The new releases have descriptions like "light, small, thin". The latest models are no longer affordable for the average professional.People pay hundreds of dollars for Titanium,high end exotic steel and design. Why? Is this customer demand or because of the input they get from the forums?
Every year fewer and fewer models seem attractive to me and those that do are too expensive. What's wrong with the old G-shock? Do you think we all wan't a rolex?
Or is this Spyderco's business plan? To become a high end semi custom maker?
Click to expand...

Jim,

I'm with ya 100%. Too much stuff now made in Taiwan that costs over $120. No thanks. If I'm going to spend over $120 it will be on something made in the USA. Just my own preference. I do like the look of some of the knives made in Taiwan but I'm not paying that kind of money for them.

The Military is now about $140 to $150 depending on what you buy. That's too much IMO. They did get it right with the Manix 2 and the Para 2 being right around $100 give or take. I'm just starting to feel like everything that is newly released is made in Taiwan and has a sky high price.
 
Spyderco has the models that sell still in the line. The Delica, Endura, Police, etc. go back to the 90's and cost less now than then taking inflation into account. There are enough models to go around for most needs and price ranges from the Byrd line on up to the most expensive ones. No one will like every model though. If they hadn't kept the lineup fresh I would have stopped buying long ago except for the occasional replacement. They have found a way to get plenty of my money over the years. As far as made in Taiwan, or Japan? Doesn't bother me in the slightest. If I like the knife I'll happily buy it. If I don't, I won't. The cost of everything is up and it gets frustrating when your income doesn't keep pace. Mine sure hasn't. I've had to sell off knives to buy new ones. If I didn't like the new ones more I wouldn't.

I'm not dissatisfied with Spyderco's lineup at all. Over the years they have made several knives that were just about custom made for me without the custom price. The Super blue lineup, the upcoming Cruwear millie, the entire Mule line, heck, every new steel spyderco has introduced in the search for better performance. S90V, CTS-XHP, M390, CPM D2,3V, CTS 204, etc. not to mention the still excellent VG10 and S30V staples. The Southard is typical of new knives Spyderco has run that cost big but are worth it in relation to the competition. Mine came to me virtually perfect. IMO it's a great deal for it's cost taking inflation into consideration. I'm a lot more pissed off about the cost of food, gas, health insurance and medicines than Spyderco knives.

I still feel fortunate and say "thank you Spyderco".

Joe
 
Last edited:
Jim malone said:
I am a long time Spyderco collector and user.I have been collecting since the 90's. It seems that a few years ago Spyderco took a turn in a different direction. Instead of making tools for professionals it looks like they are turning into a different direction. The new releases have descriptions like "light, small, thin". The latest models are no longer affordable for the average professional.People pay hundreds of dollars for Titanium,high end exotic steel and design. Why? Is this customer demand or because of the input they get from the forums?
Every year fewer and fewer models seem attractive to me and those that do are too expensive. What's wrong with the old G-shock? Do you think we all wan't a rolex?
Or is this Spyderco's business plan? To become a high end semi custom maker?
Click to expand...
I'd say that, like many of us, you've been seeing what you wanted to see. Otherwise, you'd remember that, starting around 1989, they've almost always had something in the lineup that didn't fit the "tools for professionals" mold. You've forgotten the Spyderkeys, the Mini Mariner, the C22 Klotzli Waker, the various knives embellished by David Yellowhorse, Gary Blanchard, and Santa Fe Stonework. You've forgotten the Ramco Laguiole, the C27 Jess Horn, the Evolution Set, and more. Most of those were expensive, some would have said outrageously expensive, for their times.

So, IMHO, the current lineup is just a continuation of a business plan that's been in effect for at least 25 years. You have the "value priced" models made in China. You have the "tractors that don't have to look like Ferraris" tools represented by the venerable Police Model, as well as the brand new Ulize, by the various Rescue knives for saving lives, and by knives like the Warrior for taking them. And you have the models made to appeal to folks who consider a knife as functional jewelry.
 
Interesting thread on a couple of levels. First, Spyderco does produce an amazing variety of knives at different price points. There are the Birds, and then all the way up to the higher dollar semi-customs and the top of the line exotics to choose from, so this is a pretty decent spectrum of choice to me. Second, how do you maintain this company?

GM's motto was (after WWII) we make a car for everyone, from the humble Chevy to the more expensive Buick & Cadillac. After WWII they had a 51% share of the world market. They got into trouble when an upstart company from Japan began working in their backyard (Toyota). The energy crisis of the 1970's was the first big nail in their coffin. At this point, GM's marketing was slick and they TOLD everyone what they were to buy and for how much. They thought their managers could anticipate a demand and marketing could sell it. Their managers sat and dealt with problems in production by looking at the point of manufacture. Toyota looked at the whole process and would follow a problem to its source, not sit on their collective duff. Toyota's model was the opposite of GM's, a big chunk of cash went into marketing research (what do you want to see in your next Toyota?) and has remained there. It didn't take long for GM to go broke and for Toyota to gather a huge market share, based on quality, price and market needs.

Let's just sit back and watch what happens in the next 20 years to see if these threads have any meaning. I, for one, hope Spyderco continues to listen to their customers, research better steels and work to make the best product for the money that is possible. Credit where credit's due folks, but the market determines winner & losers.
 
I hear OP and felt the same myself. However, I think it says more about me than Spyderco. I was used to carrying a 10 dollar blade, then a 25 dollar one, then a 50 dollar one and I thought that was flashy! Every time I kept raising my limit, I found Spyderco to have an option for me. They may not have had 5 options, but there was always an option.
 
Sorry, I ran out of time this morning and had to leave for work without giving my opinion about this: "Too much stuff now made in Taiwan that costs over $120." I would have to say that the Gayle Bradley is a case in point of this statement. Please show me another knife with the fit, finish, CPM-M4 steel, carbon fiber scales and quality of this single knife at a similar price. I just don't know of one. The execution of mine is flawless (although I did do the liner mod to better suit my tastes), solid and aesthetically pleasing. Which other production company in America comes close to this one knife in quality and price?

I also have a problem with the sentiment that only America can make quality goods and deserves your dollars. The people of Taiwan are democratic, capitalistic and are an independent nation, which continues to be our ally. Japan is the same for us. If the ZDP-189 was made in America, would you buy it? If our technological advances are used by other countries, why shouldn't we do the same with theirs?

I think Spyderco has an excellent product line and I wish them nothing but success in the future. Hopefully, they will remain a privately-held entity and will never go public, that would be a tragedy in my opinion. Thanks Sal.
 
cbxer55 said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Camillus did not die because they were not keeping up with technology and the times. They died because their stupid employees decided to vote to go union. The company voted with their pocketbook and closed the company down. The Cuda Maxx line up and the Dominator model proved they could make modern high-end knives.

Stupid is as stupid does. Company did the right thing.

My understanding is they are back again. but now made in china junk. I won't be buying any.
Click to expand...

Hold on, you're saying it was "stupid" of the employees to go union, so the bosses it shut down? Now the company is back but they've outsourced all their manufacturing to overseas where labour rights are nonexistent and safety records are abysmal and that's somehow good thing!? I'd say that says a lot about their management's priorities at Schrade or Camillus and it isn't in making good products or providing good service, it's in making a buck the cheapest way possible by cutting out skilled local workers entirely. Definitely not the companies I would spend a nickel on anymore.

This isn't to say all outsourcing is terrible but, in contrast to the Camillus/Schrade example, Spyderco does a good job of being balanced in its lineup. There is the Golden factory supporting local workers churning out amazing models like the PM2, Seki City offering many premium blades, and then there are the Chinese and Taiwanese factories which can provide knives for a variety of price points while still retaining top-notch quality control. That, in my opinion, is a balance of providing good products but also providing a variety of options for their customers. Kudos to Spyderco for doing it well.

That same variety in their product line has let them offer some great blades at extremely reasonable prices, like the Tenacious and the Byrd line (perfect for folks on limited budgets). Then there are still the classics such as the Delica, Millie, Police, and Endura which sell at the $55 - $120 range in FRN (all well within a professional's budget). Yes, there are new models with exotic steels and designs but obviously with how fast they sell there is demand for them. I don't think that means Spyderco is losing sight of their roots but rather branching out to offer more choice to their customers.
 
Last edited:
Somewhere around 2003 Spyderco introduced the Titanium version of the ATR. MRSP then was a largeish $329 If I remember correctly. I couldn't afford it then. It took some time for me. I found one I could buy in around 2008 0r 2009. Even in 2009 that would be a high MRSP. Now there are several that top it in price but it shows that making and selling expensive and advanced knives is nothing at all new.

The Ti ATR is still a sought after knife for collectors that weren't available to get one when new, still in the lineup. It's still futuristic looking and probably challenging to build. I finally sold mine to finance one I'd get more use out of but I don't find the price so high now. Not looking at the price of a steak while shopping yesterday, or putting gas in the car.

Every knife isn't for me, or anybody else though. I don't get the impression they are intended to be either.
 
cbxer55 said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Camillus did not die because they were not keeping up with technology and the times. They died because their stupid employees decided to vote to go union. The company voted with their pocketbook and closed the company down. The Cuda Maxx line up and the Dominator model proved they could make modern high-end knives.

Stupid is as stupid does. Company did the right thing.

My understanding is they are back again. but now made in china junk. I won't be buying any.
Click to expand...

Interesting analysis.
Totally Incorrect & bereft of any truth though.
With all due respect, you should seriously reboot your "understanding" of this topic.
 
Not true! I received a UKPK in trade. I think its a $35 dollar slip joint knife made with a decent cheapie steel (Gin 1). I was on a huge trading spree for about 4 months and after receiving the UKPK (keeper) and a Tenacious (keeper) my desire for trading kinda fizzled. Both cheapie knives. Someone said that they just broadened their price ranges and variety is all, they also developed the Byrd line.

That said I am 100% going to splurge eventually on one of those cool Ti jobs.
 
disagree strongly with the OP. while it's true that they are branching out to "high end" models, they still have their bread winner work horse knives. and more of them now then they ever had.

do you also realize new models need a higher price for any profit to be made because of the need to change equipment and methods, etc...? this means it is harder to introduce new, inexpensive lines. that's why most new "hot" models are usually on the more expensive side.

it sounds like you are just seeing what you want to see.
 
Anyone can afford a Spyderco. It's just that they are making some of the more expensive models now. You can still go out and buy a $30 Tenacious though.

Also, Spyderco is all about innovation. And they always have been. If they stayed the same as when you first got into Spyderco knives, they wouldn't be here today. They would still be selling their old stuff, and people would tire of it and move on. Fortunately, Spyderco always seems to have new models to look forward to!
 
noseoil said:
Sorry, I ran out of time this morning and had to leave for work without giving my opinion about this: "Too much stuff now made in Taiwan that costs over $120." I would have to say that the Gayle Bradley is a case in point of this statement. Please show me another knife with the fit, finish, CPM-M4 steel, carbon fiber scales and quality of this single knife at a similar price. I just don't know of one. The execution of mine is flawless (although I did do the liner mod to better suit my tastes), solid and aesthetically pleasing. Which other production company in America comes close to this one knife in quality and price?

I also have a problem with the sentiment that only America can make quality goods and deserves your dollars. The people of Taiwan are democratic, capitalistic and are an independent nation, which continues to be our ally. Japan is the same for us. If the ZDP-189 was made in America, would you buy it? If our technological advances are used by other countries, why shouldn't we do the same with theirs?

I think Spyderco has an excellent product line and I wish them nothing but success in the future. Hopefully, they will remain a privately-held entity and will never go public, that would be a tragedy in my opinion. Thanks Sal.
Click to expand...

The Gayle Bradley was just the example I was going to use. I understand if someone wants to buy US-made knives for the sake of "Buying American," but if they think "made in Taiwan" is somehow a step down in quality, it's simply not true. I have several of the popular Golden, CO models (Military, PM2, Manix2) but my Gayle Bradley is honestly put together better than any of them. The Taichung plant is churning out some excellent blades for Spyderco and I would be proud to add more to my collection.
 
BatCountry9 said:
The Gayle Bradley was just the example I was going to use. I understand if someone wants to buy US-made knives for the sake of "Buying American," but if they think "made in Taiwan" is somehow a step down in quality, it's simply not true. I have several of the popular Golden, CO models (Military, PM2, Manix2) but my Gayle Bradley is honestly put together better than any of them. The Taichung plant is churning out some excellent blades for Spyderco and I would be proud to add more to my collection.
Click to expand...
Time will tell.....
I am sure there are some excellent Taiwan produced knives,but I think I would prefer another brand like ZT(Example 0770CF ) at the price point of some of the Taiwan Spyderco import models.
spyderco-southard.jpgzero-tolerance-770cf.jpgLeft Spyderco Southard(Taiwan) Right Zero Tolerance 0770CF (USA) My choice
spyderco-c134cf.jpgbenchmade-osborne-contego-810.jpg left Spyderco Gayle Bradley(Taiwan) Right Benchmade 810 Contego (USA) My Choice

Time will tell and to each their own.I do like the Spyderco Taiwan produced designs and I am sure QC is great, but I think there are other choices that I will be happier with in the long run.Life is full of choices and we all can chose to spend our hard earned money on whatever makes out heart warm.
Peace,
Salmonkiller
 
Last edited:
Spyderco has no chance against Chinese cheap manufacturers if it fights by their rules. I do not think if has got much choice but to become a premium manufacturer. And that is not that much about the geography as about market positioning.
 
salmonkiller said:
Time will tell.....
I am sure there are some excellent Taiwan produced knives,but I think I would prefer another brand like ZT(Example 0770CF ) at the price point of some of the Taiwan Spyderco import models.
View attachment 360231View attachment 360230Left Spyderco Southard(Taiwan) Right Zero Tolerance 0770CF (USA) My choice
View attachment 360232View attachment 360233 left Spyderco Gayle Bradley(Taiwan) Right Benchmade 810 Contego (USA) My Choice

Time will tell and to each their own.I do like the Spyderco Taiwan produced designs and I am sure QC is great, but I think there are other choices that I will be happier with in the long run.Life is full of choices and we all can chose to spend our hard earned money on whatever makes out heart warm.
Peace,
Salmonkiller
Click to expand...

thats a great comparison I looked at a gayle bradley it was nice then I looked at the benchmade 810 contego and ended up buying the benchmade 810 it was made in the usa , smoother opening, better lock, and cost less. so the choice was clear. the spyderco was nice but the carbon fiber sticker ( I know its laminate but a super thin sheet glued to g10 is a sticker in my book) and made in taiwan just wasn't for me and Iam not against taiwan I have about 10 cold steels and 12 utilitacs but they were $20 to $40.
 
I'm definitely a fan of Spyderco, yet I believe all their new releases have been over $100 in price. It's quite likely something has escaped my memory, but it seems as though there're not many new knives being produced under that price point.
 
Hi Jim,

Interesting qustion and certainly worth discussion. I didn't expect heat. In fact much of the opinons were correct.

Our business model hasn't changed much since we began. We've always tried to provide variety in design, materials and cost. We try to use the best steels available and the highest quality we can build. The higher prices are mostly because of the stronger Yen, Taiwan dollar Euro. Add to that the cost to makers has also gone up, so there prices have likewise increased.

We are doing more collaborations partly becuse customers are asking for them and partly becuase there are some very interesting designs. It also permits us to provide greater variety of design. We have limitations on in-house designers as few in-house design.

We're growing our US factory as fast as we can. We also feel strongly in USA made products.

More Reeve Integral Locks (framelocks) because that is what many of the custom guys like to use.

sal
 
I don't think the fact that they're offering some more expensive models means their end goal is to become a "high end" knife manufacturer, whatever that means. They still offer a large selection of affordable, practical and useful knives, and I think they always will. What they are doing is keeping pace with an ever-evolving market and taking advantage of newer materials and designs. Seems like nothing more than good business sense to me. Just my 2 bits worth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top