Spyderco Urban Carry in New York City

a dangerous knife is not defined, and there in lies the problem. Intent to use as a weapon makes ANY knife a dangerous knife in NY. Certain designs ( bayonet, tanto, kriss, double edge blades) have been deemed to be weapons by design in NY. If you tell an officer that you carry your SAK for self defense, then it just became a dangerous weapon. A Captain in Queens told me how two of his officers arrested four men for having steak knives in their car. He questioned why they arrtesed the four, and the officers responded that the brand new pack of eight steak knives was open, and the four men stated they bought them for self defense since there were some people after them from a prior altercation. Lesson be learned it is a tool for a specific need or leave it at home....
 
Intent and the clear expression thereof got them into hot water! Seems even common items,like sporting goods equipment,tools,flashlights,writing implements,etc can also be deemed dangerous instruments if used for self defense or offense against another person. Things like SAKs or other multi-tools,while usually safe to carry in most places,enter that undefined gray-area when the possessor comes into contact with law enforcement. That inevitable question,"Whatcha carrying this for?" must be answered very carefully. Any indication that you are carrying it for self-defense and it has now become a weapon. I imagine some multi-tools can also be considered burglary tools if one is found in certain situations. I guess the bottom line is to be cautious of the statements you make to the police,if any. Also, be aware that being in certain situations and attracting police attention can make a SAK or multitool suspect as to why you are carrying it.
 
It's one hell of a state we live in! :(

Well, this is a timely thread: after a few years of carrying the relatively safe (in terms of legal jeopardy) UK pen knife, my wife just got me the greatest birthday present ever - a Rick Hinderer XM-18!

It's a bigger knife and has a lock so if I carry this beautiful knife I'll have to hope my 37 year streak of not being stopped by the police continues or that I don't run into an officer who feels like mis-applying the law to me! What a shame that a work of art like this knife lives in a gray area.

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gundude73 said:
well if the cop asks to frisk them and they say no the cop has probable cause. kind of a catch 22 in the cops favor.
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You are protected from unreasonable searches by the fourth amendment. Not agreeing to surrender your constitutional rights is not giving a LEO probable cause. Always verbally (never physically) refuse to allow searches.
 
Funny thing about NYC, it is almost impossible to get a firearm ccw permit, but if you get a lawyer, you can almost always get a handgun permit. May take 6 months.

In NJ, you just can't get one.

One other thing about NYC, they can search bags on the subway. Similar to an airport. They can just pull you over to the side and search.
 
I was born and raised in NYC and lived and worked there most of my life. Shortly after I retired, I moved to NJ, and I rarely go into the city since Bloomberg took over.
 
richw, not sure how you think a lawyer will get you a permit? NYC has become impossible to get a permit for almost anyone lately. One of the officers that is assigned to one of the malls I manage, left the NYPD for a year and went to get a permit on his last day. He was an officer with over 200 arrest and five years on the job, and they told him they would only give him a target permit since he had not served 15 years of more a as ofiicer! He rejoined but can't believe how they treated him for that brief year! NYC is so anti weapon it is impossible to feel safe carrying anything.
 
I have never looked at the knives I carry as weapons,though some people might do just that. I think feeling safe from carrying a knife,or anything else that might be considered a weapon,including a firearm, is misleading at best. By misleading I think some people may feel safe and secure simply carrying a weapon. That could be a fatal mistake if that person is not mentally and spiritually prepared to face someone determined to do them harm. Avoiding trouble should be one's first priority. If impossible to avoid it,then determined resistance is called for. If one's life is threatened,then by all means time to get medieval and wreak havoc upon the aggressor. The mind is the best weapon Ive got. Thank god I havent totally lost it yet!
 
tom19176 said:
richw, not sure how you think a lawyer will get you a permit? NYC has become impossible to get a permit for almost anyone lately. One of the officers that is assigned to one of the malls I manage, left the NYPD for a year and went to get a permit on his last day. He was an officer with over 200 arrest and five years on the job, and they told him they would only give him a target permit since he had not served 15 years of more a as ofiicer! He rejoined but can't believe how they treated him for that brief year! NYC is so anti weapon it is impossible to feel safe carrying anything.
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I wasn't saying a carry permit you can get, but rather, an owner's permit (technically with limited carry to a shooting range, place of business, hunting area, etc, but the ammo locked separately from the locked handgun). In NJ, the police can just nix you on a handgun permit for any reason they want. With a lawyer in NYC, barring any felonies or other reasons, they will issue the handgun permit.

Just for the record, I don't believe ex police offers should have any more rights to own a gun than any other law abiding citizen. I understand why it makes sense from a safety perspective.
 
I just picked up a Case Sod Buster Jr. because my Cheetah Cub and Mini Copperlock have locks. Any thoughts on the Sod Buster Jr. as a traditional non weapon carry in NYC?
 
I lived in NYC for 30 years. I got into a couple of confrontations where I had to pull out and at the end when the police came around I had to give up the knives. When the police look at the knife and put it up to their palm and its close to 4 inches they WILL take it and add it to their collection. You either walk away or go to jail for having an illegal knife. Thats the options they gave me. I lost some good knives (MOD Hornet, CQC-7, and some other ones I dont remember). But NYC sucks. I recentl;y bought the Emerson Snubby and that would be Perfect for NYC but I sold it and bought a ZT300. The snubby was really too small for me. Its just a last resort emergency thing. Rock Solid knife thou that will get the self defense job done. Just dont try to cut up a grapefruit. lol
 
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Sod busters tend to be viewed as leagl in NYC for the most part. Make sure they are under a 4" blade, and if it is a locking one the blade must be tight!

richw, your were referring to a target permit and or premise permit as defined in the NYPL. They can be obtained, but it is still no walk in the park. As for retired officers being able to carry, that is granted for two reasons, the fact that you will always run into someone who spent some time in jail and wants to blame you, and the fact that you never stop getting involved in helping the public when you are no longer an active LEO. I have made over 100 apprehensions since I have been working in the private sector ( Brooklyn and Bronx), and that includes several felony assault crimes involing guns/knives. I do believe carry permits should be issued to non felons, perhaps with a strict safety training as a requirement in NYC.
 
I know that when I originally wrote it, it was a bit unclear, but I never said you could get a carry permit, I said you can get a handgun owner's permit. I later defined that as what you call a target or premise permit. NYC refers to it interchangeably as a handgun permit or handgun license.

Actually, the premise version is a bit odd, you can only have it a specific premise, say a home or business. If your license expires, legally, you are supposed to bring the firearm to the police station. Legally, you are not allowed to take the gun from the premise. Kind of a catch 22. The target version is the one with limited carry to a target, hunting, etc. which is the version I referred to in my 2nd post.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/permits/gun_licensing_faq.shtml#HowDoIApply
 
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rich if you really want to read alot, look at section 400 of the NYS penal law here:
http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article400.htm

You will see that there really is no such thing as a "target" permit in the NYS law. What has really happened is the City of NY, Nassau and Suffork have issued carry permits with their own restrictions on them that are not found in the law. Fun stuff right?
 
Is this a result of Bloomberg's policies or is it more endemic of the attitudes of the whole NYC government?
 
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