Spyderco's annual culling - need opinions

DON'T drop the Moran.
DON'T drop the Native II.
DO drop the lower quality (you said it yourself) SS Endura and Delica, or upgrade the blade steel. Actually, nevermind... those are probably good sellers, aren't they.

Leave some form of the Rookie in (it is still there in SS, right?). Not because I want it (already have mine), I just see it as a good seller. I could be wrong, though.

Does that help at all?

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iktomi
 
Sal,

I'm not as familiar with the complete line as many of the other readers, but it has seemed to me that the following three models are very similar, and maybe one could serve the purpose of all three:

Endura
Pro-Grip
Delica

I'm sure many will disagree, and again, I don't know the line all that well. Just a suggestion to attempt to eliminate what appears to be some overlap.

 
Sal,

I agree with Ferret's choices. When I look through the current offerings, I see overlap. That's where I'd recommend starting.

To me there's too much similarity between the Pro-Grip, the Endura, and the Delica. One of these would seem to serve for the group. I really think that the necklace should be at the top of the drop list. The Toad also holds very little appeal for me.

I realize I don't know the line as well as many others, so please take my recommendations with one economy-sized salt lick.

 
All good information, even if coming from diffeent levels of experience and understanding. It gives me food for thought.

Spark - sorry, that is private info. I'd prefer to keep that way. sorry.

Dennis - I kind of hate to give up the small knives now. In 10 years, the only knives people will be carrying will be small knives & "Specific" variety of design is nice. The exceptions will be the collectors & knife nuts. It is my responsiility to have some vision of the future. Yours too.

In general, because something seems similar to you, such as Endura, Delica, Pro-Grips, they are actually very different and are designed to meet "specific" needs and desires of the ELU. One size does not fit all. To the untrained eye, a Porsche & Volkswagon are basically the same. But to the actual buyer, the individual differences are what is used to determine choices, IMO.

sal
 
I have to agree with Fozzy that it is impossible (for me) to guess which knives are the best sellers but I want to give my 2 francs (not cents because from Belgium ; soon to be Euros) because the knife affectionados (okay I am one to : 6 Spydies, 3 CRKT, 2 BM, 2 Böker, 1 MT, 1 Gerber, 1 Al Mar) seem to scratch the little knives and I have to say the 'perfect knife' for me is the plain G10 Navigator (I own 2) : small, usefull and you can get a solid grip on it (if your hands are not to big).

I would buy the Mouse too if it came in G10.

You can scratch the Spydercard if you make a lighter one (I own one and it is great except the weight and thickness (to a smaller extent)

Philip
btw I own a Shabaria too, but I bought it because I really liked the shape 'artistically' since I do no see a practical use for it.
 
I would also agree with whatever the sales figures had to say. Truthfully, who cares what it is. If it's not pulling it's weight, drop it. If the original Worker can get canned, no slow mover should be spared.
 
I really hope you will not discontinue the Cricket. I'm sorry that so many people don't "get" the Cricket for some reason, but I think there are a lot of people for whom it is the ideal daily carry knife. It's small and light, very convenient, pretty nonthreatening, has a beautiful reverse recurve, is perfect for "safety" cutting (near things that shouldn't be cut!)

If you are thinking of replacing it with the Meerkat, I can see that...but give the new model a little time to see if it really works for the same people and the same uses.

[This message has been edited by johnniet (edited 07-06-2000).]
 
I agree with SID. I regretted the demise of the Wegner Jr., as the large size is really great, and I need a good, heavy-duty, plain-edged, small folder (not interested in any other brand, with the possible exception of Buck [still looking - but will try to find a Wegner Jr. still]). But obviously it didn't have what others demand.

The knifeknut perspective will vary considerably from the other ELUs, which probably make up most of your sales.

If it were up to me, I'd axe all 'combo' edges! If you want both edge types, carry two or more knives! The combo edge is the total destruction of a fine either or. But, I figure that most non-knifeknuts probably love the combo style. <Sigh!>

Thanks for asking, Sal.

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Champions make improvements as fast as losers make excuses.
 
Sal,
Thanks for asking our input!

DONT drop the G-10 Police - It's a big lockback with full-flat-grind! Hard to find now that the Calpyso is gone

I'm sad that some will have to go, but here are the ones I'd be the least sad about:
-All of the Wayne Goddards
-The Pro-grip
-Pro Venator
-Michael Walker lightweight

I know the general public buys different types of knives than us, but they won't cry if you discontinue something because they won't know the difference and don't have "favorites"!
 
Sal
I agree with the guy about the partialy serrated blades. Most people that I deal with either want a plain edge or a serrated one. I use a lightweight Mini Dyad as one of my daily carry knives and it is a super knife. I keep the plain edge for certain projects but I have the luxury of having a serrated for special chores like cutting rope and canvas.
I just received my large Dyad and it is a big club. Too heavy for the pocket. It would be ok for a pouch type sheath.Bring back the Alum Cricket.

Here is my list
Toad
Snap it
Walker light
Viele
All Goddards
J.D. Smith
"R"
Zowada if not already gone.
I hope this helps.
Are their any CF knives available besides the Dragonfly,Ladybug and Cricket?
Would love to have one or two
smile.gif

These could be done as limited editions.

Bobby


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AKTI member #1000
President South Carolina Association of Knifemakers
President American Knife Throwers Alliance

http://www.brantonknives.com
 
There are blade designs where fully serrated makes sense, and there are blade designs where partial serrations make sense, but there are some designs where three variations could be pared down to two.

And carrying a plain-edge Delica and a fully serrated Endura or Rescue (Jr.), or some similar combination, depending on budget and taste, is a good way to get a combination edge.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser:
...I kind of hate to give up the small knives now. In 10 years, the only knives people will be carrying will be small knives & "Specific" variety of design is nice. The exceptions will be the collectors & knife nuts. It is my responsiility to have some vision of the future. Yours too.
Click to expand...

That is a very interesting comment. Do you suspect that preferences will move in that direction, or that carrying larger knives will be legislatively prohibited? Or something else entirely? Just wondering.......



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Kevin
 
In my personal and retail experiences, most of the all steel handled models that have a variation of G10 or FRN should be retired. Those that come to mind are the Police, Endura, Delica, Mariner, Harpy, Worker (Bring back the plain edges though!), and Co Pilot. They are bit heavier than need be and do not provide a secure enough grip as G10 and FRN do. Unless they are roughblasted or checkered! From a manufacturing standpoint I do believe the all steel models are a bit more difficult if not impossible to be worked on at warrantee. Most of the G10 models at least are secured with screws rather than rivets(?).

Oh yeah, Walker lightweight, micarta mini dyad, and either the Remote Release or the Snap It needs to go.

The Zowada and Shabaria don' t seem to be getting many calls either.

L8r,
Nakano
 
Recluse - Welcome to the Spyderco forum. It's just my opinion, but I believe it will be a combination of;

Getting too much (negative) attention when pulling a large knife in public.

Legistlative "attitude" as to what is really needed.

Modern knives can do much more and still be smaller due to technology and ergonomics.

Carrying smaller knives is less bulk & weight to carry.

This subject might make an interesting thread?

sal
 
It would be interesting to know how much of Spyderco sales are driven by what dealers and retailers order, Vs. what the average non enthusiast end user would buy if the complete line were available to them. The light weight Delica, Endura and Rescue have got to be bomb proof. These are the models that "everyone" carries. Eastern Mountain Sports (here) carries all three, probably 25 to 50 of each, all in plastic bubble backs on a peg board. Every one is black handle, every one is full serrated. REI is just the same. The clerks don't even know that Spyderco makes a knife without serrations or for that matter that there is anything in the line other than the Delica (serrated), the Endura, (serrated) or the Rescue.

So, the question is which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Do dealers as a group buy what sells, or do they sell what they buy. The thing that perhaps makes this a bad example is that these three knives in particular would seem to offer the best value going. Dealers know this and order them, when they sell they prove that they were right, and order more. What would happen if EMS for example ordered half as many Enduras and Delicas and filled out the order with a like number of light weight Dragonflies and Natives? Would they have to reorder Enduras and Delicas three times before the Dragonflies and Natives sold out? or would they discover that they had two brand new best sellers that they didn't even know existed before?

The upper end of the Spyderco line is a more difficult question. I would assume that it is the lower price knives that produce the bulk of the income Spyderco enjoys, and that to a greater or lesser extent they support the high end knives, the Militaries, Starmates and Wegners. I may be way off the mark here but it seems to me that almost all of the new product development is at the high end of the scale with little at the bottom. The Native in 440 V is new, and light weight Calypso is new, at least to me. Maybe this is a good thing. I sure a new model means a lot more to us here than it does to the weekend hiker/camper who wants a "little" knife to stick in the fanny pack. Perhaps it is a good idea not to confuse the purchasing agent at EMS or REI with new models, or too many choices.


Mike
 
Mike - quite astute. Even more complicated when the "knife buyer" is not a knife person and is just looking at sales numbers and shelf space.


The internet might help some of this. It has been a problem for a long time.

There are a few dealers out there that know & care, but not enough.

The ELU is the most important of the equation. Eliminate them and there is no equation. Reaching them is quite different. Advertising costs are so high that prices must go up or quality must suffer to compenstate.

That is why sales figures alone cannot determine the cull. Most dealers suggest that we cull whatever they don't carry. Some even suggested culling Starmates, some suggested culling Dragonfly's. Forumites are more knowledgeable but found only on the forum.

To the average dealer (or even ELU), they don't know the difference except in cost. Comparing Spyderco to "other" companies to us is sometimes insulting. We test em' all. We know what they got...we know what they don't.

It cost a lot more to create a lock that is strong and reliable. Unless you know that and trust the company producing, you are just comparing looks and price...Two things that are less important to Spyderco than safety & performance.

It is a puzzlement!

sal
 
If sales numbers don't justify their continued production, in no particular order, my vote would go for:
[*] Toad
[*] Navigator
[*] Catcherman
[*] Snap-It or Remote Release
[*] Walker Lt. Weight
[*] Shabaria
[*] CoPilot
[*] Rookie
[*] Pegasus

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Cheers,
Brian

He who finishes with the most toys wins.

[This message has been edited by bcaffrey (edited 07-05-2000).]
 
Perhaps the Shabaria should get a little more publicity as a "large" folder that works in small hands.

One lady bought one because that recurved combo edge for collecting plant samples on a summer's research project in a biological preserve. Not a bad design for peeling fruit, or making some stranger let go of you either.

But we drift into another thread here ... How, in an egalitarian age when women vote, own property, drive cars, and wear shoes, can we get half the population to rediscover their identity as tool-using animals?


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
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