SR101, S30V, INFI - The Toughest Steel?

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mete said:
Seth , throwing in a few comments - Dirty steel refers to a high amount of inclusions , which are oxides or sulfides. A steel that is vacuum melted or even double vacuum melted has the lowest amount of inclusions and is very important for such things as bearings so BG42, a bearing steel ,will be very clean. Application determines the need for cleanliness......Vanadium in amounts of less than 1 % is added to refine the grain, not to produce carbides....... Are they saying Busse knives are nitrided ? that is a surface treatment like carburizing .In any case the Ti is probably there to form TiN, titanium nitride which acts like a carbide ( it's the gold stuff they coat drill bits with ). I haven't used one of those knives so I don't know how "fantastic" it is but I don't see anything in the composition that would produce miracles.
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very good to know :D

when i said nitrided, i used a term that i didnt mean to, i just meant that it had nitrogen in it, not that it was coated.

when asked wether or not infi would benefit from the powder process vs smelting, jerry replied
Jerry Busse said:
Matti S.,

Good question! We have explored this very question. Powdered metallurgy can offer some very strong benefits in certain ares of knife performance. However, it is not possible to take the same analysis from a smelted steel and transfer it to a powdered construct and achieve an improvement. Carbide dispersion is very good and can therefore greatly affect the amounts of carbide formers that are included in the mix. If we wanted to achieve the same level of performance as INFI in some areas, the analysis of the PM would look nothing like that of INFI.

Thanks,

Jerry
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while there may be inconsistancies in the steel, on a whole i beleive that busse knives does more or less everything they do because they have found that it is best for the end performance of the steel. it may be that whatever is required to even out the grain sizes would be detrimental to the other aspects of the knifes performance.

Blop said:
I just look at the research and made my concusion.

I guess, at that price range, where you pay double for one you can give such a warranty. Go break yours, will you?

And having handled a few i strongly belive, if they are sold hioghly it´s just for the name.
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i bought my first busse after reading all of cliff stamps reviews refering to busse combat on his website. i would still do the same in light of those reveiws, and the things i have seen him do with a swamp rat/busse combat blade.

i dont think that the difference between a busse knife, and another knife of the same size and a high quality steel will or does feel fantastically different in use, but you do see it in the long haul. kind of like a car that you buy, and after 5 years, is still running like the day you got it, where as all of your other cars have had 10% of their components break or be replaced. that car probably doesnt handle any better, or get any better gas mileage, it just tends to break down less.


i agree that the knife (57rc edge and 60rc spine) should be sent back to busse combat, it would be replaced


im pretty sure that you could make a knife thats considerably stronger then infi out of a different steel such as L6, it just depends on what you need it for, and why you would need the added level of strength (at the cost of other areas of performance). and then theres the price factor...
 
So, what made me wonder is: I saw testings of vaious blades, how much they would take before breaking and it was always, that at about a thickness of .2" all took very muck sidepresure at 500N, even ATS34 at HRC59.

As i can´t imagine what that means in reality i was told you could easily use them as a step, if your weight lies around 70 - 80 kg (average).

So, i guess at the same sizes and a propper ht, you will get more or less same performances. Some say instead of INFI, take D2 with same result. I would doubt, but they weren´t fools.

Note: The test i mentioned was given to Jerry Busse and he was glad to know this. I never heard of a replie to it but get the chance to ask the man who did the test next month if Jerry Busse replied to it.

I wasn´t saying you might get something stronger than INFI. Those Busses just don´t catch me and i don´t see any advantage in them and then there is a report of how bad they could be. And i really don´t like that hype. That´s all.

BTW it was a Basic #6.
 
yes, yes the were.

i searched for the thread refereincing a percentile difference in performance, but it turned out to be nothing...

modified infi is cheaper to manifacture, and has a slightly different make up then infi, and in generall it would seem that more corners would be cut with the basic line then would be with the normal combat grades...

so to some degree any comments regarding modified infi as an overhyped steel that doesnt have the performance or quality to back it up are moot now that its out of production. they are still interesting in regards to generally quality control though.

but yes, we are off topic :)
 
INFI gets consistantly good reviews, who cares how its made or what its made of? If it breaks the traditional rules then so be it.

I don't own an INFI blade but would not hesitate to buy one. Not because of the hype or name but because I can't think of anything but positive reviews of their products. ;)
 
I think the closest thing to an "unbreakable" knife will come in the future when some revolutionary new metal, and/or method of forging/crafting the blade (maybe aligning it at the sub atomic level) is discovered.

How tough would a blade made out of depleted uranium be?
 
Does anybody really test boolat-wootz. Problem with it - it is exteremely expensive, require 100 HT cicles ~ $400 for small blade.
Bulat09.jpg

Bulat08.jpg

Bulat07.jpg

more pictures here:
http://playground.sun.com/~nozh2002/Bulat.html
Article on English at the end of this page:
http://playground.sun.com/~nozh2002/Bulat-Achim.html
 
Blain,
A knife made of depleted Uranium would be useless. Uranium is about as tough as lead. Very same, soft, mushy texture.

I'll take Infi, (or SR101) thank you, very much.

MPotter
 
Blain said:
I think the closest thing to an "unbreakable" knife will come in the future when some revolutionary new metal, and/or method of forging/crafting the blade (maybe aligning it at the sub atomic level) is discovered.
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We have all of the elements, according to the periodic chart we aren't missing anything. We just have to find the optimum combination of those elements to make one super steel. This thread is rather stupid though. Are you looking for a sharp pointy prybar or what? S7 is the toughest steel I know of, but 3V is probably better with a better balance of toughness and wear resistance, it also holds an edge better than S7.
 
Blop said:
So, what made me wonder is: I saw testings of vaious blades, how much they would take before breaking and it was always, that at about a thickness of .2" all took very muck sidepresure at 500N, even ATS34 at HRC59.

As i can´t imagine what that means in reality i was told you could easily use them as a step, if your weight lies around 70 - 80 kg (average).
Click to expand...


Most high grade cutlery steels are very strong, meaning it takes a lot of force to stretch them. However many of those steels are readily broken under light impacts. For example a 3/16" file isn't easy to break with a one arm pull, but will shatter if just popped with a hammer. INFI is both strong and at the same time resistant to breaking from sudden fracture.

As for the hardness test, even the better testors will read +/- 1, you have to take calibration into account as well. How many readings were taken along the edge and spine, what were the variances, was the angle of the primary grind taken into account (flats machined and then surface ground)?

As for it being a dirty steel, I have used M-INFI, SR101, and INFI all are among the toughest blades I have seen, and I have yet to see anyone promote and support performance claims which are in excess of what I have seen with the Busse Combat and Swamp Rat knives, they both make large performance claims and *support* them.

-Cliff
 
Topics like this are constantly debated. Instead of claims, I'd like to see head to head objective comparisons at some public event like Blade. Has anyone came up with a good test and then let the knifemakers do their best to meet them. For example: Each maker submits two blades to help eliminate variances. Each blade has to have a total length of x, handle length of x, for an overall length of x. Be x deep and thick with x shape. No handle slabs, but two drilled holes at points x and x for machine installation. Machines are set up to ensure consistency and eliminate variables. The knives slice into a medium to the greatest depth with x pressure applied. They slice as many identical ropes (actually use same rope - or other material - and have several machines set up in a row to slice segments simultaneously) using x amount of force to determine how long they hold an edge. They are installed in a vice type device to measure strength and brittleness, etc.. Etc... Tests designed to balance out slicing ability (razor blade) with durability (prybar) to reflect the real world comprises we face - with some emphasis on slicing ability. Points are given for each test. Most points overall and in each category win bragging rights.
 
Many big knife companies and corporations have the CATRA test for testing edge retention and cutting ability, but none of them ever release tests. And there have been strength and impact tests for years. It's just going to take some big company with alot of money to do a series of tests among a variety of steels to do it. And none of them have cared so far.
 
Spyderco has released the Catra testing they have done on their knives, as well as the break testing they have done on their locks.

-Cliff
 
I know this is an old thread,but just had to put in my .02:D

Of these steels?...SR101, S30V, CPM3V, BG42, INFI, L6, S7

CPM3V :thumbup:














....or 52100 ;):thumbup:
 
I love how seeing a post by Cliff Stamp is my new "this thread is reeealy old" indicator.
(Though I do miss him sometimes)
 
I've just ordered a BOSS STREET :] (my first Busse).
I have a Fallkniven F1 made from VG10 laminated supersteel.
It's is an excellent quality knife but the edge dulls pretty fast when cutting wood.
It's easy to sharpen though so a good knife non the less.
I would recommend it considering it's price<quality.

Gabriel N.R
 
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