Stag Saturday - Let's See Some Traditional Stag!

Hatchet_Jack said:
That thing must be part fallow!

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Horsewright said:
Sure is a unique shed. I was thinking part moose! Completely forgot about fallow! Great pic!

My son sent me these. He owed a guy a favor and had me build a knife for him. His family filled some cow tags but he wouldn't use the knife on the cows. He saved it for a bull:

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I was thinking part moose, too, but fallow fits. Certainly unusual. With the large flat area you should be able to get a good number of knife scales from it.

Have you used moose for knife handles?

My son-in-law is from Haines, Alaska, and his father worked for fish & game. From his description, store bought meat was not served in his house. Plenty of game, as well as lots of salmon and halibut. He said that he never got to try caribou, probably because they weren't in caribou country.
 
lambertiana said:
I was thinking part moose, too, but fallow fits. Certainly unusual. With the large flat area you should be able to get a good number of knife scales from it.

Have you used moose for knife handles?

My son-in-law is from Haines, Alaska, and his father worked for fish & game. From his description, store bought meat was not served in his house. Plenty of game, as well as lots of salmon and halibut. He said that he never got to try caribou, probably because they weren't in caribou country.
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I have used moose and have some right now. Its not as good as one would expect as far as yield. The flats usually are very thin with solid material. The marrow is very close to the surface. The tines are good though, like elk. Have a caribou European mount up on the wall here in the office. Ya know me, traded some cowboy for it. Forgot to mention. There's elk over in Priest Valley too. Got some sheds from a cowboy up there.
 
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Horsewright said:
I have used moose and have some right now. Its not as good as one would expect as far as yield. The flats usually are very thin with solid material. The marrow is very close to the surface. The tnmes are good though, like elk. Have a caribou European mount up on the wall here in the office. Ya know me, traded some cowboy for it. Forgot to mention. There's elk over in Priest Valley too. Got some sheds from a cowboy up there.
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Fallow would be the same with very little main, beam mostly palmated.

I'm trading some red and sambar to a knife maker, they both seem to make nice knives like your elk.

Have you used caribou?
 
Hatchet_Jack said:
Fallow would be the same with very little main, beam mostly palmated.

I'm trading some red and sambar to a knife maker, they both seem to make nice knives like your elk.

Have you used caribou?
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Yes. I have used red deer before and I used so much Sambar I was importing it myself from India, (when that was doable). Red Deer and Elk are very close cousins and Sambar not too far off. What made Sambar so special for centuries was that instead of pith on the interior, you had a single vein down the center. So you had lots of solid material to work with. Elk and red deer lots more pith. Sometimes only a 1/4” or so of solid material on the outside. I’ve learned to cut an antler section basically in a square. What I mean by that is that when I’m done I have a square of pith left over with four scales cut off. The pith I toss away. This is possible on the main beams, as the antler sections get smaller ya might get three scales and then two once ya get down towards the end of the tines. Texture is what I’m looking for so the end of the tines don’t get used for knife handles either. I also save all the crowns, they aren’t very useful for handles. Sambar now isn’t what it use to be and this is something I have seen in my knife making career, the deteriorating of the quality of Sambar. Apparently Sambar are close to other deer species and they have been interbreeding. You are seeing more and more pith in Sambar these days. Not as much as elk…. yet, but I haven’t seen any with a single vein hole in a long time either. I've never used Caribou. I have made wooly chaps out of both bear and buffalo but I don't think that counts!

Funny story. Years ago over in the General section here on BF, there was a similar discussion of the merits of different antlers and how they are used in knife making. Unlike here, there was a lot of armchair pontification going on. Ya actually wondered if some of these folks had ever even seen a deer. After several pages, I entered in and basically explained my experience and info I had, same as I have here. An older gentleman contacted me privately and thanked me for putting in my two cents worth. He said that thread was getting crazy. "You showed up and it was like Seal Team Six coming to the Cub Scout meeting!" That was years ago but I'll always remember that. That was funny! Haven't seen that gentleman around in a while, hope he is still with us.
 
Horsewright said:
Yes. I have used red deer before and I used so much Sambar I was importing it myself from India, (when that was doable). Red Deer and Elk are very close cousins and Sambar not too far off. What made Sambar so special for centuries was that instead of pith on the interior, you had a single vein down the center. So you had lots of solid material to work with. Elk and red deer lots more pith. Sometimes only a 1/4” or so of solid material on the outside. I’ve learned to cut an antler section basically in a square. What I mean by that is that when I’m done I have a square of pith left over with four scales cut off. The pith I toss away. This is possible on the main beams, as the antler sections get smaller ya might get three scales and then two once ya get down towards the end of the tines. Texture is what I’m looking for so the end of the tines don’t get used for knife handles either. I also save all the crowns, they aren’t very useful for handles. Sambar now isn’t what it use to be and this is something I have seen in my knife making career, the deteriorating of the quality of Sambar. Apparently Sambar are close to other deer species and they have been interbreeding. You are seeing more and more pith in Sambar these days. Not as much as elk…. yet, but I haven’t seen any with a single vein hole in a long time either. I've never used Caribou. I have made wooly chaps out of both bear and buffalo but I don't think that counts!

Funny story. Years ago over in the General section here on BF, there was a similar discussion of the merits of different antlers and how they are used in knife making. Unlike here, there was a lot of armchair pontification going on. Ya actually wondered if some of these folks had ever even seen a deer. After several pages, I entered in and basically explained my experience and info I had, same as I have here. An older gentleman contacted me privately and thanked me for putting in my two cents worth. He said that thread was getting crazy. "You showed up and it was like Seal Team Six coming to the Cub Scout meeting!" That was years ago but I'll always remember that. That was funny! Haven't seen that gentleman around in a while, hope he is still with us.
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That’s interesting how you cut up your red and elk, I might give that a try myself.

Also very interesting about the deterioration of quality over time, I’m not sure what that would be from? Maybe the age of the animals, possibly something else.
I can’t imagine it’s from inbreeding unless the antler is coming from a farmed environment. Sambar (Rusa unicolour) will readily cross with Rusa (Rusa timorensi) but as far as I’m aware their natural habitats don’t overlap, I’m pretty sure not in India at least.

In Australia there was a lot of research done by the early acclimatisation societies in breeding and crossing species. They tried for years to breed reds with sambar, from memory it succeeded once and the fawn lived a few days.

Reds, elk and sika all being closely related in the Cervus genus will readily crossbreed. It’s interesting, despite being bigger elk will always lose to a red stag in fighting for mates. And a red will almost always lose to the smaller sika. That’s why the elk herd in NZ (originally gifted by Teddy Roosevelt) has become a red/elk hybrid herd.

When I get to the states to hunt elk and deer I don’t think I’ll have the heart to cut it up for knives if I get one. A nice black bear rug would be a nice touch.

Does bear make good leather for your work?
 
Hatchet_Jack said:
That’s interesting how you cut up your red and elk, I might give that a try myself.

Also very interesting about the deterioration of quality over time, I’m not sure what that would be from? Maybe the age of the animals, possibly something else.
I can’t imagine it’s from inbreeding unless the antler is coming from a farmed environment. Sambar (Rusa unicolour) will readily cross with Rusa (Rusa timorensi) but as far as I’m aware their natural habitats don’t overlap, I’m pretty sure not in India at least.

In Australia there was a lot of research done by the early acclimatisation societies in breeding and crossing species. They tried for years to breed reds with sambar, from memory it succeeded once and the fawn lived a few days.

Reds, elk and sika all being closely related in the Cervus genus will readily crossbreed. It’s interesting, despite being bigger elk will always lose to a red stag in fighting for mates. And a red will almost always lose to the smaller sika. That’s why the elk herd in NZ (originally gifted by Teddy Roosevelt) has become a red/elk hybrid herd.

When I get to the states to hunt elk and deer I don’t think I’ll have the heart to cut it up for knives if I get one. A nice black bear rug would be a nice touch.

Does bear make good leather for your work?
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Here's a square of pith left over from cutting four scales off of this piece:

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Drying from the PP and a clear coat:

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I wonder if inbreeding, as opposed to crossbreeding with other deer species is indeed the problem? Quien Sabe?

For making wooly chaps I much preferred the buffalo, (bison really), over the bear. Bear was difficult to work with and it had been poorly tanned. Really, was repurposing a bear skin rug. So basically you are sewing the hair on patches from the bear or buffalo to a pair of chaps that you made to have the patches sewn on. Its pretty complicated and I would say that the bear skin set was literally the singular most complex project we ever took on. The customer wanted double fringe and the body of the chaps followed this double color scheme of turquoise and pink. She also wanted to have the double fringe twisted. That alone took 11 hours! I showed her how to do it but I wasn't gonna do it. She came over and did it. 5.5 hours per leg just to twist the fringe! Nice when done though. Bear:

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Buffalo:

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Working on the lanyard string for this guy yesterday:

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Horsewright Horsewright , I know some drops are strictly watched if on park land, they open certain times for people to collect. Does that happen where you are in CA?
 
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