Steel capable of taking glass/metal contact?

Heiheit said:
Has anyone thought about h1? It doesn't tend to chip, instead it rolls. Even if it does chip, It can be sharpened out easily and in that process, due to the properties of h1, the edge work harden very slightly. Thoughts?
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There is nothing easy about sharpening a chip out of H1. Theres a reason they dont come in any FFG varieties.
 
bodydamage said:
There is nothing easy about sharpening a chip out of H1. Theres a reason they dont come in any FFG varieties.
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Sharpening h1 is very easy. It slowly hardens; it's not like it starts at 58 hrc and at the end of the sharpening it's 65.
 
Reeper22 said:
And that reason is production costs.
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Correct. Due the the properties of the steel, one of them being the stress it imaprts on grinding tools to produce a FFG, they arent produced in that style.

Heiheit said:
Sharpening h1 is very easy. It slowly hardens; it's not like it starts at 58 hrc and at the end of the sharpening it's 65
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Sharpening is no big deal, but when I thnk of a chip that occurs due to a blade coming in contact with a relatively hard inanimate object, I think of a large chip that takes a bit more than a couple passes on the stone to remove. Removing large edge damaging chips from H1 is a lot of work. Although I havent had years and years of experience with H1, I would assume that after 100 sharpenings the chips would be more frequent and harder to remove. And again, I think we are talking about a very small percentage point of hardness being gained over a very large amount of use and sharpening. I think very few users would actually be able to provide actual empirical evidence of such. Sal however, says it happens and I believe him.
 
bodydamage said:
Correct. Due the the properties of the steel, one of them being the stress it imaprts on grinding tools to produce a FFG, they arent produced in that style.



Sharpening is no big deal, but when I thnk of a chip that occurs due to a blade coming in contact with a relatively hard inanimate object, I think of a large chip that takes a bit more than a couple passes on the stone to remove. Removing large edge damaging chips from H1 is a lot of work. Although I havent had years and years of experience with H1, I would assume that after 100 sharpenings the chips would be more frequent and harder to remove. And again, I think we are talking about a very small percentage point of hardness being gained over a very large amount of use and sharpening. I think very few users would actually be able to provide actual empirical evidence of such. Sal however, says it happens and I believe him.
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I haven't used my H1 enough, or at all really, to say from experience but someone else said in their experience with H1 that it's edge retention started out like aus8 and after use and resharpenings ended with edge retention similar to vg-10. I don't know how much truth in that there is but I've heard similar reports.
 
Reeper22 said:
....someone else said in their experience with H1 that it's edge retention started out like aus8 and after use and resharpenings ended with edge retention similar to vg-10. I don't know how much truth in that there is but I've heard similar reports.
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Yeah Ive heard pretty much the same thing.. Ill tell you what, AUS-8 isnt that impressive, so anything better than that is a step in the right direction.
 
bodydamage said:
Yeah Ive heard pretty much the same thing.. Ill tell you what, AUS-8 isnt that impressive, so anything better than that is a step in the right direction.
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I completely agree. But if it is close to vg-10 with the corrosion resistance, it's a real winner. I'm always on the lookout for new user reports and tests on H1.
 
Reeper22 said:
I completely agree. But if it is close to vg-10 with the corrosion resistance, it's a real winner. I'm always on the lookout for new user reports and tests on H1.
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The only thing I have in VG-10 is my wifes Dragonfly Tattoo and its surgical sharp. Plain and simple.
 
KennyB said:
Steel capable of taking glass/metal contact?
Are there any steels that can handle contact with hard materials well? I'm not talking about consistent contact, but I keep having situations where I run my Kulgera into something hard, and the S30V takes a good beating. It holds an edge for a while all the way down to 20* inclusive, but I've started putting a 30* microbevel on it to deal with edge dings and nicks.

I haven't heard a lot about D2 except that it's very hard, should I check it out? What are some of the "harder" steels that can take rough stuff like that at an acute angle?
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hardheart said:
no knife edge geometry is going to take this unmarred.
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:thumbup::thumbup: on hardheart's answer

Is there Steel capable of taking glass/metal contact?

No, there is not. Not if you want the blade to have a knife edge.
 
knarfeng said:
:thumbup::thumbup: on hardheart's answer

Is there Steel capable of taking glass/metal contact?

No, there is not. Not if you want the blade to have a knife edge.
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+1

The best you could do is to have as hard a metal as you can find, M48 and T-15 can be hardened above Rc 70, but that probably wouldn't make a usable knife.

Maybe one of those $800 sapphire knives would work?
 
I am an electrician and I use my Sebenza and Acies both to strip insulation off of wires, and the blade usually ends up nicking the copper and both steels dull after this, the s30v @ 58-59 RC and the ZDP-189 @ 64-66 RC

I've noticed that the ZDP-189 takes quite a bit more to dull the edge, but it will cause tiny micro chips, which I can only see under a microscope, but nothing a few passes over fine diamond stones can't take out.

The s30v seems to just roll the edge a little, which can also be straightened out or just removed all together with a few passes over the fine diamonds again.

Both of the edges are set @ 20* inclusive.

I think you are just going to have to be more careful or get used to sharpening more often.

I sharpen my knives at least once a week.
 
My Gayle Bradley can cut through a wire without edge damage and little edge loss. But it can't stand up to steel or glass. I'd guess no knife can and still stay sharp.
 
KennyB said:
...to deal with edge dings and nicks.
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Good advice for you situation requires an answer to this:
  • If you are suffering dings and nicks, is there metal loss? I.e. micro or macro chipping? If so, you need TOUGH in addition to HARD.
  • If your blade predominantly suffers from edge rolling, a SS steel that can be run hard (e.g. ZDP-189) would help. This is the easier path, with the AG Russel Acies and many others with ZDP-189 as candidates.

If you need toughness, it's a tougher answer (pun intended):

For a stock removal knife, CPM 3V is the current toughness king, although Busse's Infi is probably as good, and regular old reliable A2 can be had in stock removal blades.

For a forged knife, there are several good options... from S5 and S7, to L6, and some makers forge A2 and 3V. These are the province of fixed blade makers typically, but not necessarily. You might need to search around. Making folders is an art unto itself. I.e., some makers who offer carbon steels aren't particularly good folder makers.

For today's steels, you generally have to sacrifice corrosion resistance for toughness. There is no stainless that will rival 3V, A2, and INFI for toughness. All of the above will require more corrosion maintenance than stainless. 3V and INFI are purportedly not likely to pit, they just get surface rust, which is easily removed if you pay any attention to the blade. That has been my experience w/ M2 folders also.

If you need a folder, your choices are more limited as most folder makers use a stainless. If you can give on the SS attributes, you might settle on M2 or CPM M4 as they should be somewhat tougher than an equivalent hardness stainless, but not by a lot (they are designed to retain hardness under hot usage, e.g. metal machining, so are only a bit tougher at the normal Rc60 target we want for general purpose knives).

Benchmade offers a number of M2 and M4 folders. Bob Dozier will do custom folders in A2 by special order (unfortunately a 14 mo wait). Maybe you could buy a D2 Dozier folder, plead your case, and get him to replace the blade with an A2 at Rc60 in less than 14 mo... will make a very fine, hard, and tough folder!
Sidebar: D2 is NOT a tough steel... it's maybe 1/2 the toughness of A2. Both can be run Rc60-61. D2 will beat A2 by some margin in abrasion resistance due to vanadium carbide content. ​

I rarely see folders in 3V, but a custom maker could deliver if you are willing to spend $400+ (RJ Martin can ably heat treat 3V, and there are others).

I hope the above helps to frame up the issues and options.
 
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hopeing a geologist chimes in but i believe most porcelion & glass surpasses all steels on Moh's Hardness Scale.
dennis
 
the way I see it unless the blade material is harder than the glass it will suffer damage, and if it it harder than glass (ceramics, or carbide) then the glass will suffer damage (small scratches can lead to catastrophic breaks) you may want to focus more on blade geometry, find something that resists deformation, and is easy to sharpen.
 
Since I know of no steel harder than glass, I tend to go the "tough" route. It's easier to straighten a rolled edge than abrade enough material to remove chips. Get blades made of tougher steel like M4 or plain old 1095.
 
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