Steel issues

JTknives

JTknives

Blade Heat Treating www.jarodtodd.com
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
8,633
This is more of a rant then anything else so just be for warned. This post is not aimed at my customers at all.”, keep the blades coming lol. It does not matter if your order is $10 or a $1,000, you will receive the same dedication to providing you the best service I can.

I’m kinda getting sick of steel that requires special hoops to jump through to get it to harden. Don’t get me wrong I will do what ever needs to be done to give every single blade a proper heat treat. But Is it to much to ask of a steel supplier to have there steel set up properly and ready to go? By that I mean you would expect the simple steels like 1075,1080,1084 ext to be ready to heat treat right out of the gate. Thy know what the steel is used for and who their customers are. What gets me is this steel is sold as a “beginner” steel but it can be a bitch to get to harden some times. I can only imagine what new makers are going through or wondering what thy are doing wrong when there heat treat fails.

It’s almost gotten to the point where I want to put a drop down box on my website where my customers can select where thy got the steel. I’m not naming any names or calling anyone out as I don’t want to toss anyone under the buss so to speak. I’m not even saying the provided steel condition is wrong. It’s just frustrating to run through an entire heat treat cycle and hit the test bench to find out oh the blade is 35rc. Well back into the oven for some normalization cycles, temper, grind and hardness test.

It seams like it’s just become excepted that some steel from X vendor requires extra steps (some times but not always). But should it be is my question. Should that steel carry a warning on their website. “Caution this steel may cause balding”. But all joking aside are thy purposely asking for this to be done to the steel or is it a mistake in processing that thy are just covering up by saying “it’s easier to machine in this condition”. Any way, it’s late and I’m tired. I might wake up in the morning and read this and say damn it Jarod what are you talking about. Would not be the first time lol.
 
Good rant :-). Actually is interesting and worthwhile to hear (as someone who has not done, but someday **might** do HT) that you see that sort ov variation in condition of steels. Surprising ...
 
DevinT said:
One day I think we’ll see JT with a few salt pots or fluidized bed furnaces set up to speed up the conditioning prior to heat treating for these alloys.

Hoss
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As funny as it sounds I have thought about adding a second oven. Have not really given salt pots any thought as I have been concerned with the safety aspect. I would kill for a conveyer oven ;). But just the belt for those cost more then it cost to build my entire oven, and it was not cheep to build lol.
 
I hear you. I only do a few local people’s heat treat, and I have to ask where they got the steel so I know what I have to do to it. I mostly do high alloy and stainless now though, and I find that stuff more consistent.
 
JTknives said:
As funny as it sounds I have thought about adding a second oven. Have not really given salt pots any thought as I have been concerned with the safety aspect. I would kill for a conveyer oven ;). But just the belt for those cost more then it cost to build my entire oven, and it was not cheep to build lol.
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I would love to have three ovens!
 
I just did an experiment using some of my older 1095, 1084, and W2. None of them hardened above Rc32 without normalizing.
 
Fallbrook Forge said:
As a new maker whose on a shoestring budget, I'd like to know where to NOT get steel from.
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It seems to be bad form to disparage suppliers in an open forum.

Instead, I will simply recommend the only material supplier that I'm aware of that advertises "no extra processing" required and provides material certs. Alpha Knife Supply. My own experience (though very limited compared to others here) supports that claim.
 
It grinds my gears, too. For us little hobby guys it adds so much processing and time it takes a month of free time to get just a few knives finished. Or we make crummy knives and don't know any better. Social media is full of steel that just doesn't perform "right," and I just have to believe it's from poor heat treat response.
 
Fallbrook Forge said:
As a new maker whose on a shoestring budget, I'd like to know where to NOT get steel from.
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The issue we are talking about is mute if you forge. If you are stock removal, then you have to get one suppliers steel hot, above 1600f, usually 1650f to break up the clumpy carbides. Then you thermal cycle to refine grain, then heat treat. It’s all described in the sticky’s.

Edit: DevinT beat me to it.
 
tkroenlein said:
It seems to be bad form to disparage suppliers in an open forum.

Instead, I will simply recommend the only material supplier that I'm aware of that advertises "no extra processing" required and provides material certs. Alpha Knife Supply. My own experience (though very limited compared to others here) supports that claim.
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Yes, Chuck makes sure it’s ready to go the moment you get it.
 
as a stock removal guy it erks me but i also totoaly understand why the steel comes so ultra fine and in need of a few heat cycles (just wish i knew what bars needed said treatment as not all of them do ) to be completely fair said source traded out my bars for the newer run and then passed along the too fine bars to the smiths to forge
 
So annealed 1080 steel should still be normalized prior to HT? I don't have access to hardness files but will a bad HT knife still skate a file after hardening?
 
I buy all my 1095 from Jantz Supply. I have had no problems with it hardening.
 
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