Steel Junky's - need opinions

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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I would like to share a potential project with you.

The "plan" was to use a fixed blade pattern for learning about steels. The design is a warncliffe, 3" - 4" blade length. Blade and handle one piece of steel. Essentially a steel "mule" like we use in our testing, but with a handle.

I spoke with Brian Huegel (Country knives) about this a couple of years ago. He has a very good understanding of knives and the industry. He said that everyone will want a handle that is more than just the steel and probably a sheath. A good point. I don't want to get involved in trying to make custom handles of sheaths for the "mules".

I thought of doing this several years ago but the idea was put on hold because of the handle / sheath issue.

I've thought about it quite a bit and I would like to present the idea to the steel junky's.

A standard fixed blade pattern, probably a warncliffe, 3 - 4" in blade length. Handle and blade would be one piece of steel. Perhaps one of you could make aftermarket handles / sheaths where desired. Our sheath maker could probably be persuaded to make a standard Boltaron sheath.

I would work with the foundries to get material. We would make a pre-planned quantity, maybe 300 - 500. All full flat grind. We coud probably do 1 - 4 runs per year. Each "Mule Team" knife would be engraved with the type of steel.

We would determine steel to test and Rc on the forum before making each run. We would cut them out, heat treat, tumble (cheap), grind, sharpen and ship. Some steels have to be ground before heat treat. No handle, no sheath. All would have to be pre-sold (I don't want to inventory.) which means some of the group would purchase more than one to be able to have some available for those not signed up. We would keep the cost as low as is possible. Costs would vary depending on mfg costs.

We would begin with steels we're already using, eg: VG-10, S30V, ZDP, etc. to get the ball rolling. Then steel selction would come from you.

We could maybe do Rc, CATRA and Charpy tests, but leave the rest to you.

Any interest?

sal
 
Sal keeping them as cheep cost wise as you can sounds like a great Idea. I have no problem with no handle or sheath. Does the blade shape effect the cost? I kind of think for testing reasons a small drop point or simular would be a better choice for us who do most cutting by hand and works better for more types of cutting. It's a great idea and I personally would like to see the first one in a steel not used currently. Or if a current steel a much different rc than current. It's a great idea.
added...
I'd do it.
 
How about a folder with interchangeable blades? This way we could go "all out" on the handle material, then subscribe to the testing program where we are obligated to buy each new blade every few months in the new experimantal blade steel. Just a thought... :foot:

Spyderco is, after all, famous for FOLDING knives with the round opening hole.
 
I'm definitely interested, Sal. I really like the idea of being able to test the same steel at different hardnesses, if so I'm sure Spyderco stands to get some great feedback from this forum.

I also second db's suggestion that drop point blades would be preferred, but if cost or other considerations dictate wharncliffes I understand.

If tangs came pre-drilled with holes for anyone wanting to add scales or do a cord wrap, that would be great. No other frills/extras.
 
folders sound better to me also-for what thats worth-
can edc in the same conditions with the different steel types
 
Superb idea! My own personal test mule at minimum expense!

I like the warncliff shape idea also - a basic sharp edge in a given alloy at minimum manufacturing expense.

A standard pattern would allow any/all sheath makers to offer an inexpensive off-the-shelf sheath for those interested in sheaths. No need for your involvement in sheath design and production at all.

A 4" straight tang is easy to cord-wrap by anyone. Perhaps two drilled holes for those who would like to affix slabs for a handle.

Minimize your manufacturing expense, thus minimizing my own expense.

I think you'll find great interest in this concept, not only as 'test mules' but also as minimum-expense multiple-purchase utility knives for shop, car and toolbox.

I like the idea of offering these mules in speculative alloys - steels that you might be considering offering, but have doubts about market reception - basically letting user-feedback influence future blade steel offerings in finer-finished knives.
 
I'll second everything gud4u says. I love the idea overall. A simple pattern, repeated over and over, with the spirit of being able to do head-to-head tests of different steels. Speaking for myself, I haven't done much time-consuming head-to-head testing in recent years, but making it this easy for me would motivate me to get working on this for sure. It's a just plain great idea, and a wonderful service to the knife-knut and steel-nerd community.


I'd like price to be rock bottom (as rock bottom as possible, considering you're working with expensive, hard-to-machine steels), so I love the blade shape, love it as a fixed blade. Make the handle reasonable as bare steel, but include holes so people can cord-wrap (get some cord wrap hotshot to make a photo progression of an easy-to-do cordwrap and slap it up on your site), although I'm sure there will be knifemakers will to offer add-on handle slab services.
 
This would be a great chance to compare steels. Keep it a wharnie - for the purpose of cutting & edge testing it's a great shape & very easy to sharpen. I'd love to get a set.
 
Great idea! Keep it cheap.

How about a subscription plan? I'd be happy to pay for 4 at a time.
 
yes, i'm in and 3rd what gudfu said. split the diff and go 31/2", blade with a few holes. excellant idea and surprized it sat on the shelf this long.
 
I'd be interested in most everything from Takefu, Daido, and Hitachi that's easy for Spyderco and their partners to harden and temper to at least RC64 (higher would better :) ). If it has any chance of winding up in a Caly3, I want to try it. If it won't have that chance, well, did I mention I like the Caly3?
 
I am not positive I would be in that I have a couple thoughts perhaps you could have a sign-up for maybe four pieces per tester or have an initial setup fee to cover a small synthetic neck rig and possibly handles that could be unscrewed and attached to the new Mule as they are provided so one Reagan once said of handles can be used for a number of runs. honestly I would probably try to pick one up secondarily but I don't actually use the knives enough to get a whole lot of actual real-world testing out of me.
 
Sounds great. The folder idea is nice, but would probably have to be a slippie, since fitting/testing the locks would be impossible for follow-up blades.

a set of handle scales that could be quickly swapped to a new test blade could work.
 
Assuming there was sufficient interest, I guess the goal would be to be able to provide a "piece of the stuff" in a fairly consistent format, at an affordable cost. Same thickness, same grind, same tumbling, same edge angle.

We would shoot for an Rc on which the afi's agreed. CATRA and/or Charpy might give some basis for comparison from lab testing. Real world use would be a personal experience. A topic of conversation.

sal
 
hmm, would be great to play with the geometry too, it's so easy to change the tip angle on a wharnie.

Did you get to check out that idea I sent you? Wasn't sure if you had winrar, but a link for it was on the page, and 7zip also works for the filetype.
 
I like it Sal. Many people go nuts about hardness, edge retention, toughness etc. But out of this may come out something unknown to us and that is what steel do most prefer after really trying it. It may turn out that after using and comparing multiple "standarized" knives, people find that the latest greatest steel may not be their favorite when it comes to usage.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Assuming there was sufficient interest, I guess the goal would be to be able to provide a "piece of the stuff" in a fairly consistent format, at an affordable cost. Same thickness, same grind, same tumbling, same edge angle.
Click to expand...

Yes, I realize this is the plan, but what is the end result you are trying to achieve, or is this itself the goal? In any case, I would be interested, but not in the way you are noting. I would want a sample of the blades, marked, but not steel specified, i.e., I, II, III, etc. . I'll get work done on them, then I'll send it to you and we can compare the results with the data you have compiled.

-Cliff
 
I personally would like the steel type marked on the knife. If I am buying them and I do want to get them all I want to know what they are. I also would like to see the cost as low as possible. Would hholes like even just 2 really ad much to the cost of produceing them? If so I'd not have a problem with even no holes in them. Probably be in the wrong place anyways depending on if a person wanted to do a cord wrap or scales. I think this is a real winner of an idea for all of us. Thanks Sal I hope we can do it soon.
 
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