-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Steel Question
- Thread starter L6steel
- Start date
I haven't ever replied to this question before, so I will now. I like stainless. First of all, I like the fact that soap, water and a quick cursory drying are enough to maintain virtually any stainless blade. I'd hate to have to worry about carrying around some kind of oil everywhere I went to make sure my blade was protected. Plus, ever taste an apple after cutting it with a knife you forgot to wipe the oil off of? Well, okay. I haven't either, but I imagine it'd be gross. I also like stainless for my display knives (although, I am more tollerant in this category). Again, a maintenance issue. I invariably have a few knives that somehow get missed and I don't see for a number of months. That happend once to a Boker carbon steel whittler (I think) in my collection. When I finally got around to it, it was well discolored as the oil had evaporated some time before. It was salvagable, but it still sucked when I noticed it.
Anyway, I have nothing against carbon steel, I just like stainless better.
-Al-
Anyway, I have nothing against carbon steel, I just like stainless better.
-Al-
I would have to say that my current favorite knife steel is BG-42. I have three customs in BG-42 and I have come to love it as a knife steel... sharp, durable, stainless, and easily sharpened.
On the other hand, my all time favorite knife is the Dozier Yukon Pro Skinner in D2. Go figure... a non-stainless that is easily the best cutting knife I have ever seen or used.
Come to think of it, I really, really like my Simonich Talonite Cetan, which isn't steel at all.
Hokey smokes... I guess it doesn't matter which steel is actually used, so long as the maker has done his/her job and created a blade with good geometry and grinds.
Maybe I just like knives? But is push came to shove, and I could only have one knife steel, it would be BG-42.
AJ
On the other hand, my all time favorite knife is the Dozier Yukon Pro Skinner in D2. Go figure... a non-stainless that is easily the best cutting knife I have ever seen or used.
Come to think of it, I really, really like my Simonich Talonite Cetan, which isn't steel at all.
Hokey smokes... I guess it doesn't matter which steel is actually used, so long as the maker has done his/her job and created a blade with good geometry and grinds.
Maybe I just like knives? But is push came to shove, and I could only have one knife steel, it would be BG-42.
AJ
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2001
- Messages
- 2,491
The only stainless I am really enthusiastic about is VG-10. I am not saying carbon steels are superior to stainless in every way for every application; they just happen to suit me better.
This sounds subjective, and could be my imagination, but to me, a carbon steel blade seems to take a keener edge than most stainless steels. It feels sharper. It may not be sharper, but it feels that way. I also like the way it feels on a stone when sharpening as opposed to stainless.
Furthermore, I find the patina that a carbon steel blade develops after use very beautiful. I don't consider the maintenance requirements of carbon steel a drudgery, but a pleasure.
This sounds subjective, and could be my imagination, but to me, a carbon steel blade seems to take a keener edge than most stainless steels. It feels sharper. It may not be sharper, but it feels that way. I also like the way it feels on a stone when sharpening as opposed to stainless.
Furthermore, I find the patina that a carbon steel blade develops after use very beautiful. I don't consider the maintenance requirements of carbon steel a drudgery, but a pleasure.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 1999
- Messages
- 3,036
Too many variables for a simple answer...
Thanks Blilious. CPM-3V is a great steel, unless you live within 20-30 miles of an ocean or swamp.
Thanks Blilious. CPM-3V is a great steel, unless you live within 20-30 miles of an ocean or swamp.
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
I find that it is easier to get a really sharp edge on carbon tool steel than stainless. As far as rust is concerned, if you care for the blade properly rust will not be a problem. Carbon tool steel stains more easily, but that doesn't bother me.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2000
- Messages
- 643
(for the short version, see subject line)
Being a knife maker myself, that's a simple question for me to answer honeltly without any thought at all. Carbon steel. But that's just right now. I forge 100% of my blades right now and stainless just isn't worth the hassle when I know I can get excellent results with simple carbon steels every time. And if I do happen to mess up with a blade it's no big deal. I just start over. Not so with some of the higher end stainless steels available today. And don't forget, there are many high end carbon steels out there too. Most of them can be had at a fraction of the cost of stainless steels. In some cases, they're even free if you know where to look
Some of the higher end stainless steels approach low end damascus in price. It just doesn't make any sense for me to invest in all the high tech equipment for heat treating stainless steels and then pay more for my steel stock too. With carbon steels I can keep my prices down and still make fine using knives that more people can afford. And I guess I'm kind of a peckerhead about it too. My thoughts are that if someone doesn't know how to, or just doesn't take care of their knives they have no business having them in the first place. Knives are no different than anything else really. Take cars for example. What good does it do you to buy a really nice car (even if you can afford one) if you're not going to take care of it? Just doesn't make any sense.
On the other side of the coin I guess a fellow has to look at what customers are looking for these days. Art knives are a big deal. And it doesn't make any sense to use anything other than a stainless steel since most of them will just be displayed. But I tend to look at things realistically in my business. I make using knives. Always have and most likely always will. In my opinion, the market for good using knives will never go away. When times are hard financially or there is a recession/depression, who's realistically going to be looking for art knives? There will always be a market for using knives because they're a necessity, they're inexpensive and made to be used. So, the answer to your question is simple for me. Good old plain carbon steel. It's been a standby for a few centuries now and it still works.
Being a knife maker myself, that's a simple question for me to answer honeltly without any thought at all. Carbon steel. But that's just right now. I forge 100% of my blades right now and stainless just isn't worth the hassle when I know I can get excellent results with simple carbon steels every time. And if I do happen to mess up with a blade it's no big deal. I just start over. Not so with some of the higher end stainless steels available today. And don't forget, there are many high end carbon steels out there too. Most of them can be had at a fraction of the cost of stainless steels. In some cases, they're even free if you know where to look
Some of the higher end stainless steels approach low end damascus in price. It just doesn't make any sense for me to invest in all the high tech equipment for heat treating stainless steels and then pay more for my steel stock too. With carbon steels I can keep my prices down and still make fine using knives that more people can afford. And I guess I'm kind of a peckerhead about it too. My thoughts are that if someone doesn't know how to, or just doesn't take care of their knives they have no business having them in the first place. Knives are no different than anything else really. Take cars for example. What good does it do you to buy a really nice car (even if you can afford one) if you're not going to take care of it? Just doesn't make any sense.
On the other side of the coin I guess a fellow has to look at what customers are looking for these days. Art knives are a big deal. And it doesn't make any sense to use anything other than a stainless steel since most of them will just be displayed. But I tend to look at things realistically in my business. I make using knives. Always have and most likely always will. In my opinion, the market for good using knives will never go away. When times are hard financially or there is a recession/depression, who's realistically going to be looking for art knives? There will always be a market for using knives because they're a necessity, they're inexpensive and made to be used. So, the answer to your question is simple for me. Good old plain carbon steel. It's been a standby for a few centuries now and it still works.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 1998
- Messages
- 2,395
I voted for stainless, but that is only because there are some really good high-carbon stainless, or stain resistant steels available these days. My true preference is for CPM steels, 3V, and 10V, with tool steels like D-2, A-2, and O-1 coming in second. These fight rust to some extent and take a wickedly fine edge.
I do prefer the best stainless steels to simple carbon steels like 1095. CPM S90V, ATS-34/154CM hold an edge a good long time, though they aren't easy to put a fine edge on. Even 440C, if it is carefully heat treated, holds an edge pretty well, and is moderately tuff.
But the design of the knife is far more important to me. I have a Fred Perrin La Griffe and a Matt Lamey bowie in 1095, and they are excellent knives. Just take a little more care.
I do prefer the best stainless steels to simple carbon steels like 1095. CPM S90V, ATS-34/154CM hold an edge a good long time, though they aren't easy to put a fine edge on. Even 440C, if it is carefully heat treated, holds an edge pretty well, and is moderately tuff.
But the design of the knife is far more important to me. I have a Fred Perrin La Griffe and a Matt Lamey bowie in 1095, and they are excellent knives. Just take a little more care.
Bronco
Moderator
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2000
- Messages
- 7,610
I voted carbon. CPM-3V, M2 and INFI perform just too darned well in my bigger blades not to get the nod. But that's not meant to take anything away from S90V and BG-42 which I think are perfect steels for folders. I'd even go so far as to say that ATS-34/154CM now qualify as underrated steels. Didn't think I'd ever see that day come.
Maybe Crucible will hurry up and deliver some S30V and put this debate to rest once and for all.
Maybe Crucible will hurry up and deliver some S30V and put this debate to rest once and for all.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 1999
- Messages
- 5,855
Very good posts folks! Made me do some thinking, and I didn't even pass out. Now that Admiral steel offers it, I might go back to L6 for my fixed blades and stick with ats-34 and maybe some 01 for folders. Anyone ever seen a folder with an L6 blade? Thanks forumites, you got the wheels turnin in my noggin!!!
Now that Admiral steel offers it, I might go back to L6 for my fixed blades and stick with ats-34 and maybe some 01 for folders. Anyone ever seen a folder with an L6 blade? Thanks forumites, you got the wheels turnin in my noggin!!!
- Joined
- Jan 4, 1999
- Messages
- 3,000
I like damascus either stainless or carbon steel (or both mixed.)
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2000
- Messages
- 1,693
I prefer the carbon steels. I've always liked the patina an old, well-used carbon blade gets with age. And now that I'm making knives I appreciate the fact that I can heat-treat them myself with simple tools and equipment, and tweak the heat-treat the way I want it. Ease of sharpening and that final wicked sharp edge is a plus, too. Has anybody mentioned the beautiful temper lines you can get on a carbon steel blade?
- Joined
- Jul 23, 1999
- Messages
- 1,409
Well, I'm gona be blunt on this one.........
I never met a stainless blade I liked. On the reverse side of the coin, I never me a carbon blade I DIDN'T like.
I spent almost two years of my knifemaking career playing and experimenting with stainless, none of which convinced me that I could achieve what I consider acceptable OVERALL performance from stainless. I found it to be a cold, impersonal, and "sterile" material for a blade. The only plus I have ever found in stainless is the lack of care required on the user's part. This did not even come close to making up for the lack of other combined characteristics that I feel are necessary in a blade.
I keep a wooden stake and a cross in the shop, just in case someone ever walks with with a stainless steel blade!
I never met a stainless blade I liked. On the reverse side of the coin, I never me a carbon blade I DIDN'T like.
I spent almost two years of my knifemaking career playing and experimenting with stainless, none of which convinced me that I could achieve what I consider acceptable OVERALL performance from stainless. I found it to be a cold, impersonal, and "sterile" material for a blade. The only plus I have ever found in stainless is the lack of care required on the user's part. This did not even come close to making up for the lack of other combined characteristics that I feel are necessary in a blade.
I keep a wooden stake and a cross in the shop, just in case someone ever walks with with a stainless steel blade!