Steel that holds the best edge?

I also feel that the 10v is a few points "soft" and I also think the test would be more accurate if each of the steels were HT to their optimum hardness to ensure edge holding. I'm also surprised that D2 wasn't on the list,considering it was B.Dozier do the grinds and the heat treat.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
Knives dull by different mechanisms. Different steel/heat treat combinations better resist dulling by those different mechanisms. Without specifics of what type of usage we're talking about, any discussion of "edge holding" is pointless.
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I wouldn't say pointless, that is going a bit far. Let's assume individual optimal heat treat, and similar edge and blade geometry. People want to know, the op was thinking 1095 was some sort of edge holding standard. It is pretty safe to say that is pretty far-off base, and you can name several steels that would blow 1095 out of the water in edge retention.
 
nccole said:
I wouldn't say pointless, that is going a bit far. Let's assume individual optimal heat treat, and similar edge and blade geometry. People want to know, the op was thinking 1095 was some sort of edge holding standard. It is pretty safe to say that is pretty far-off base, and you can name several steels that would blow 1095 out of the water in edge retention.
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S110V Annealed (55 RC) has better edge retention than 1095.....
 
IMO, Bohler k294 microclean @64-65 is the best steel for a knife blade. It has extreme edge retention and compressional strength while not being brittle like CPM rex-121 or s125v. K294 is a true well rounded performer with the trade of of corrosion, which isn't even that bad.
 
Ankerson said:
S110V Annealed (55 RC) has better edge retention than 1095.....
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That's awesome, I bet I could heat treat err, anneal? a S110V and outperform 1095. (never heat-treated a knife or done anything to make a knife, but I can follow directions well enough to manage a poor heat treat probably :D)

Is it really annealing to get it to 55? What would it be before any heat is applied? Sorry if my ignorance is shining through, please educate me!
 
nccole said:
That's awesome, I bet I could heat treat err, anneal? a S110V and outperform 1095. (never heat-treated a knife or done anything to make a knife, but I can follow directions well enough to manage a poor heat treat probably :D)

Is it really annealing to get it to 55? What would it be before any heat is applied? Sorry if my ignorance is shining through, please educate me!
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Yes it is. No worries we all have to start somewhere.

Annealed steel is steel in it's softest state. Basically before it's heat treated it's annealed.
 
Ok, I have always thought of an annealed metal as one that is heated at a lower temperature to soften it further. I work in the fluid routing industry, and we send steel hose fittings out to get annealed, to soften them up even more because we crimp them to the hose, and if they are too hard they become brittle and the shock of the quick crimp will fracture them. So, in this case annealed is straight from the mill? Would I be correct in saying that 55 RC is pretty hard for a steel in its natural state?
 
nccole said:
Would I be correct in saying that 55 RC is pretty hard for a steel in its natural state?
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Yes. A lot of the old carbon steel blades that people love so well for their ease of sharpening are around 55Rc after heat-treatment.

High-alloy steels are harder/more wear-resistant than simpler ones, even at the same overall Rc hardness and even before HT. To put it most simply, because they contain lots of stuff like chromium and vanadium that's harder than iron.
 
Steels like 1095, 5160, 52100, etc. are typically in the low to mid 20s of hardness in the annealed condition. 1095 and 52100 can reach over 65 when hardened, just to illustrate the difference hardening makes.
 
Rolling steel into thinner stock can make it wise to re anneal steel after receiving it. I saw some S125 stock that came from the supplier at rc 55. The piece I had measured out at that hardness. Grinding such steel can be a PITA. Re annealing it to get the hardness down only put it down to the high 40's IIRC. It's been 5-6 years.

I think I remember Farid talking about some of the exotic high alloy steels coming in like that too. Of course he doesn't hesitate to go at Rex 121, 15V, etc., and 18%tungsten T1 is no problem for him. Light work. :) Farid, if you get to reading this some time wasn't there a knife you used up more than 50-60 belts on? :O

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Rolling steel into thinner stock can make it wise to re anneal steel after receiving it. I saw some S125 stock that came from the supplier at rc 55. The piece I had measured out at that hardness. Grinding such steel can be a PITA. Re annealing it to get the hardness down only put it down to the high 40's IIRC. It's been 5-6 years.

I think I remember Farid talking about some of the exotic high alloy steels coming in like that too. Of course he doesn't hesitate to go at Rex 121, 15V, etc., and 18%tungsten T1 is no problem for him. Light work. :) Farid, if you get to reading this some time wasn't there a knife you used up more than 50-60 belts on? :O

Joe
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Hi Joe, made two CPM REX-121 choppers which were ½” thick and they took 50 ceramic belts to finish. Farid
 
Hi Joe, made two CPM REX-121 choppers which were ½” thick and they took 50 ceramic belts to finish. Farid
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Thank you sir. I thought I had read a post you wrote about that. It's nice to know my memory still works a little. I'm trying to calculate how much you would have to charge for knives like that to make it worth your time and effort and I don't really see it as being something I could afford. Heck , the materials alone are big bucks. Add a decent hourly wage in there and it's not difficult to see those will never be regular production items for anybody but advanced, well off knife lovers. Still, if you want something no one else has they could be just the thing. :)

Joe
 
The Mastiff said:
Thank you sir. I thought I had read a post you wrote about that. It's nice to know my memory still works a little. I'm trying to calculate how much you would have to charge for knives like that to make it worth your time and effort and I don't really see it as being something I could afford. Heck , the materials alone are big bucks. Add a decent hourly wage in there and it's not difficult to see those will never be regular production items for anybody but advanced, well off knife lovers. Still, if you want something no one else has they could be just the thing. :)

Joe
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Hi Joe, well the two REX 121 choppers have gone to two friends on here, one of them will be getting a mini version 3/8" thick, 13" overall length, I won't make any more choppers from this steel. F
 
nccole said:
I wouldn't say pointless, that is going a bit far. Let's assume individual optimal heat treat, and similar edge and blade geometry. People want to know, the op was thinking 1095 was some sort of edge holding standard. It is pretty safe to say that is pretty far-off base, and you can name several steels that would blow 1095 out of the water in edge retention.
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No, it's pretty pointless. Are we cutting rope with a perfectly vertical slicing motion? Rope with a push cut? Are we chopping up meat? Does the meat have bones in it? Is the knife being hand-held so there could be some variation in the angle of attack? Is the cutting happening over several days on a boat in the ocean? These scenarios will all offer various levels of dulling via abrasion, deformation, chipping, and corrosion. Pretty much everyone in this thread is focusing purely on dulling by abrasion in a very controlled scenario that does not really reflect how knives are used in the real world. In the real world "cutting rope on a sailboat over a two week cruise" scenario, H1 will hold a better edge than 1095 if for no other reason than the edge on the 1095 will be rusted to hell after 3 days. Talking about edge retention without specifying the conditions really is useless.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
No, it's pretty pointless. Are we cutting rope with a perfectly vertical slicing motion? Rope with a push cut? Are we chopping up meat? Does the meat have bones in it? Is the knife being hand-held so there could be some variation in the angle of attack? Is the cutting happening over several days on a boat in the ocean? These scenarios will all offer various levels of dulling via abrasion, deformation, chipping, and corrosion. Pretty much everyone in this thread is focusing purely on dulling by abrasion in a very controlled scenario that does not really reflect how knives are used in the real world. In the real world "cutting rope on a sailboat over a two week cruise" scenario, H1 will hold a better edge than 1095 if for no other reason than the edge on the 1095 will be rusted to hell after 3 days. Talking about edge retention without specifying the conditions really is useless.
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That's because that's one of the few "tests" where the variables can be minimized. These "tests" are not the final word on real world use but can be a basis for a choice for "real world use". All bets are pretty much off when we start invoking very specific "real world" applications.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
No, it's pretty pointless. Are we cutting rope with a perfectly vertical slicing motion? Rope with a push cut? Are we chopping up meat? Does the meat have bones in it? Is the knife being hand-held so there could be some variation in the angle of attack? Is the cutting happening over several days on a boat in the ocean? These scenarios will all offer various levels of dulling via abrasion, deformation, chipping, and corrosion. Pretty much everyone in this thread is focusing purely on dulling by abrasion in a very controlled scenario that does not really reflect how knives are used in the real world. In the real world "cutting rope on a sailboat over a two week cruise" scenario, H1 will hold a better edge than 1095 if for no other reason than the edge on the 1095 will be rusted to hell after 3 days. Talking about edge retention without specifying the conditions really is useless.
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I agree that it's not incredibly useful and that context and intended use are very, very important factor to consider but it's still not useless. For example, if there are no hypothetical situations where 1095 will hold an edge for longer than M390 it's safe, and useful, to point out that M390 holds a better edge than 1095. Now when we get to comparisons between, say, M390 and CTS-204P or even a bigger gap like maybe S30V and CPM M4 it gets a lot less useful or true.
 
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