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I think price wise you might be refering to secondary market prices as the 0454 was very reasonably priced for what the consumer got
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Sticker shock an annoying trend.
- Thread starter Will Batayte
- Start date
Which is hype nonetheless, but of course you're wrong that ZT doesn't steel hype out the ass. Vanax 75, Maxamet and the religious worship of m390, the latter of which with comparable HT has only the slightest margin of benefit over S30V in terms of wear resistance, which is the primary value of both steels. Carbon Fiber, Titanium and bearings are all commonplace these days, which brings us back to the point of the thread: is it justifiable?
I see why Cliff Stamp was banned from this website. There is such a tremendous amount of shilling.
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Positioning. Whether or not it costs more or does more is secondary to how premium your product appears to be based on brand equity. And the secondary market pricing on sprints has given some insight to price elasticity. The threat of Chinese knives of decent quality drives the need to differentiate. A $150 knife that is no better than a $95 Chinese model is a harder sell for tool users. If you can convince the market that your specific brand is worth a new 30% price hike, you are now not competing with those Chinese knives. You focus on new models with different materials and let the older models stagnate against the new entrants.
Cliff Stamp was banned from this site for calling the owner names.
Take it down a few notches, please.....
I tried to bring it back by giving my 2 cents on the ZT relative to another guy's rather misguided comments. The moderators forced it off course again by taking my comment about Cliff Stamp personal and accusing me of cheerleading. They are rather overzealous.
bodog
BANNED
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And can't the same thing be said for the rubicon? And the rubicon is less and more numbers are available to buy as well. Most people who bought them are comparing their precision and fit and finish to the sebenza. For 200 bucks less than the 0454, which I have heard many great things about, but not sebenza level fit and finish.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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Damn, this thread went somewhere totally different than the original post.
I guess that's the entertainment value of the internet though.
Nothing wrong with a little entertainment.
Too bad some people think bad-mouthing each other is entertaining.
You don't listen and you don't understand. Lets try it another way.
Read http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/faq.php?faq=faq_rules#faq_faq_warning_infractions_banning
Specifically http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/faq.php?faq=faq_infractions_lists#faq_faq_infractions_sassin
Was correcting your assumption and asking you politely to step it back a little with your commentary.
Continuing down this road is a path you don't want to take.
I was wrong for calling a guy a name back on page 3, but since then all I've done is keep with the theme of the thread and question whether or not, for example, a sprint run ZT is justifiable or is a cynical marketing ploy that is disadvantageous to us consumers . It seems that is what's going to get me banned, that and standing up for myself.
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Do you have a credible source on your assertion of S30V vs M390? I'd be curious to read it.
trevitrace
Gold Member
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i like m390. Oh, and turtles, I like turtles.
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You'll have to wait until this zero's next attempt at creating an account so he can harass our moderation staff for your answer! :thumbup:
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I can hardly wait!
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Agree to disagree. The way I see it customers still got shafted on that knife because they had to buy it at list price. If you arent going to sell them to a dealer at their cost you could do the customer a solid and lower the price. I bought a ZT0777m390 for $360 shipped when they were released. If I had to buy that the way Kai is doing it now I would have paid a hundred more for the same knife. ZT can say all they want that MSRP is what the knife is worth but we all know that only a handful of brick and mortars sell at MSRP. And yes there are a few sadists who sell over MSRP. But if you are going to cut out the middle man, then why not give the customer a break on the price? They didnt even have to sell at dealer cost but they sure could have sold them for what the honests dealers were prepared to list them at.
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I feel the Rubicon is priced more than I am willing to pay.The design is not my cup of tea. There are better options for me personally in the $300 plus range.To each thier own.. I am going to just say no and happily blaze my own Rubicon trail....Happy trails to you until we meet again..........
Well I read this whole thread and just want to throw my .02 into the mix.
In regards to ZT with their limited editions I think the price hike is actually pretty fair. I think they saw the crazy prices their LEs were fetching and basically wanted more of the profit to go to them instead of secondary market sellers. I personally think this is totally justified, I would rather pay a markup to the people making the item I like than some flipper just trying to make a quick buck.
Spyderco I think might be testing the waters. The high end knife market seems to be pretty huge right now, with a lot of people willing to spend a lot of money. Guys like Brous and Medford have proven this. Spyderco is a company, and companies are always trying to maximize profit, that's just business, I don't begrudge them. Overall they make great products at all different price points, so if they want to try out the higher end stuff and see if sticks, I'm not opposed. Now if we start to see price increases across the board on their products (like benchmade for example) well then I will probably stop buying from them.
Perhaps we are at a transitioning period in the knife industry. I can't say for sure but, I would imagine that this industry is bigger than it ever has been. Companies know there is a lot of money to be made, so they're trying to carve out their piece. I think we need to play it by ear as consumers, if you feel a knife is overpriced, or the quality of a brand is no longer there, then vote with your wallet and don't buy it. Prices will eventually normalize as they always do, and that sometimes means an overall increase, its just how these things work. Or its also possible that we are in a bubble phase and headed towards a collapse (I'm referring solely to knife market), god knows we've seen enough of that in recent years. Only time will tell.
In regards to ZT with their limited editions I think the price hike is actually pretty fair. I think they saw the crazy prices their LEs were fetching and basically wanted more of the profit to go to them instead of secondary market sellers. I personally think this is totally justified, I would rather pay a markup to the people making the item I like than some flipper just trying to make a quick buck.
Spyderco I think might be testing the waters. The high end knife market seems to be pretty huge right now, with a lot of people willing to spend a lot of money. Guys like Brous and Medford have proven this. Spyderco is a company, and companies are always trying to maximize profit, that's just business, I don't begrudge them. Overall they make great products at all different price points, so if they want to try out the higher end stuff and see if sticks, I'm not opposed. Now if we start to see price increases across the board on their products (like benchmade for example) well then I will probably stop buying from them.
Perhaps we are at a transitioning period in the knife industry. I can't say for sure but, I would imagine that this industry is bigger than it ever has been. Companies know there is a lot of money to be made, so they're trying to carve out their piece. I think we need to play it by ear as consumers, if you feel a knife is overpriced, or the quality of a brand is no longer there, then vote with your wallet and don't buy it. Prices will eventually normalize as they always do, and that sometimes means an overall increase, its just how these things work. Or its also possible that we are in a bubble phase and headed towards a collapse (I'm referring solely to knife market), god knows we've seen enough of that in recent years. Only time will tell.
A fool and his money are soon parted. Or put another way, a fool and his money are lucky to have ever met in the first place.
Knives sell for what the market will bear. Too many fools paying too much money too often just raises the market prices.
I have a vintage watch collection but haven't bought a vintage Swiss wrist watch in years. In a very short time span (a few years) too many fools started paying too much money too often, even for frankenwatches nefariously sold as rarities to unsuspecting/unknowledgeable fools too easily willing to part with their hard earned cash. So now I collect knives. Vintage production slipjoints made for the masses from now defunct companies and closed production lines. While there are plenty trying to sell these old knives for way more than they are worth, thankfully, there's no real sign of masses foolishly willing to spend more money than those knives are worth. Sadly though, I think it's just a matter of time when even a delrin clad vintage Ulster, Camillus, or Schrade may command what will be stupidly high prices. When that happens, I'll likely keep my "collection" of user knives largely as it then stands and move on to something else. Now with new fangled steels and the BS hyping/marketing and the tactical flavors of the month phenomenon and people's quest to show they have the latest and greatest flavor, it's a totally different story from my insignificant POV, but that's still the way I see it and the reason market prices are so high.
Knives sell for what the market will bear. Too many fools paying too much money too often just raises the market prices.
I have a vintage watch collection but haven't bought a vintage Swiss wrist watch in years. In a very short time span (a few years) too many fools started paying too much money too often, even for frankenwatches nefariously sold as rarities to unsuspecting/unknowledgeable fools too easily willing to part with their hard earned cash. So now I collect knives. Vintage production slipjoints made for the masses from now defunct companies and closed production lines. While there are plenty trying to sell these old knives for way more than they are worth, thankfully, there's no real sign of masses foolishly willing to spend more money than those knives are worth. Sadly though, I think it's just a matter of time when even a delrin clad vintage Ulster, Camillus, or Schrade may command what will be stupidly high prices. When that happens, I'll likely keep my "collection" of user knives largely as it then stands and move on to something else. Now with new fangled steels and the BS hyping/marketing and the tactical flavors of the month phenomenon and people's quest to show they have the latest and greatest flavor, it's a totally different story from my insignificant POV, but that's still the way I see it and the reason market prices are so high.
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