Sticky lock = Good

[pinnah]

I agree, better knives only really need to have some parrafin oil soaked into the pivot, the lock ring fiddled with, those are the best knives, amirite?

This forum is replete with threads that deal with the maintenance, tuning, cleaning, lubricating and modification of folding knives. That a knife needs maintenance or lubrication to work well or tuning and modification to better suit the user's needs is hardly a distinguishing feature.

IME, "best" in discussion of knives is 95% about aesthetic preferences.

 

[Quiet]

This forum is replete with threads that deal with the maintenance, tuning, cleaning, lubricating and modification of folding knives. That a knife needs maintenance or lubrication to work well or tuning and modification to better suit the user's needs is hardly a distinguishing feature.

IME, "best" in discussion of knives is 95% about aesthetic preferences.

Oh, I don't disagree. I was just at a loss with your comment, when in past threads a certain other knife is being disparaged, you describe a drawn out pre-maintenance process and then finish with "And then it's great!" I mean...eh? Right?

The fact is, most knives with lockstick, that ish is solved in roughly six seconds with the aid of a pencil or a Sharpie colored onto the lockface on the blade, and it becomes an instant non issue. Sure, excessive fiddling and worrystoning a knife will cause that lead/marker to wear off quicker but then six seconds later, you're back in business. It doesn't mean a knife is bad.

 

[pinnah]

Oh, I don't disagree. I was just at a loss with your comment, when in past threads a certain other knife is being disparaged, you describe a drawn out pre-maintenance process and then finish with "And then it's great!" I mean...eh? Right?

The fact is, most knives with lockstick, that ish is solved in roughly six seconds with the aid of a pencil or a Sharpie colored onto the lockface on the blade, and it becomes an instant non issue. Sure, excessive fiddling and worrystoning a knife will cause that lead/marker to wear off quicker but then six seconds later, you're back in business. It doesn't mean a knife is bad.

George Carlin once noted... "Ever notice that people who drive slower than you are inconsiderate while people who drive faster than you are reckless?"

I suppose we're all on different parts of the knife maintenance spectrum with respect to what we will or won't accept out of the box. From what I can tell reading the forum, the ability to take apart modern slab construction liner/frame locks is seen as a feature, not a bug. Part of the hobby. I don't see much of a difference between 6 seconds with a sharpie (really?) and 30 seconds with a heat gun. <shrug>

I've got a few of those funny French knives stashed away in new out of the box condition. They're all perfectly useable for most people in most conditions, as you know. They are also terrible choices for some people in some conditions, again as you know. And yes, I can tune those knives to go from good to great (according to my tastes), but that hardly distinguishes them.

Like I said, most of our disagreements boil down to differences in tastes.

 

[Velitrius]

Take a look at the bottom of the description here:
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SP...e-cpm-s10v-satin-plain-blade-titanium-handles

Now, I'm not sure this was an actual feature or more of an explanation after the fact but it is almost what you are talking about. I found this knife to still be one hand, not like what spyderco claims. Still a great knife in a great steel at a great discontinued price ($150).

Yeah, Cray... I got an old skool Camillus CUDA Dominator that is about the same configuration, big ol' blade in a big ol' slab of titanium.

I don't know if my lock stickiness is more exception than rule in this model, but it might be inherent in the size/configuration.

This is the only titanium and super steel knife I have in this size though, so my data set is rather limited.

 

[Pendexter]

My preference is for a knife that has a small amount of stick and requires a small flick to close. I don't see any usefullness in having a completely free dropping blade, especially on a liner or frame lock where your thumb is in the blade path. Axis or compression lock is another story...

My 0562 has a lockbar insert, and doesn't stick at all. But if I push in on the lockbar, I can induce a small amount of lock stick as the lock travels deeper. The harder I push, the more it sticks. I see it as a feature that I never actually bother with. It doesn't fail any of those spine tests, and I'm comfortable using a slipjoint, so it's not that big a deal. But it's nice to know that IF I needed the lock to hold tight, I can just push the lockbar a bit and get a little more security.

 

[Hackenslash]

I'm usually OK with a little lock stick. As others have already said; it's easily mitigated. The only time I'm not OK is if it's due to poor lock bar alignment or material issues (spalling on the lock face).

I've only had one knife that had unacceptable (to me) lock stick and that was a Spyderco Nirvana. Given the Titanium lock face and the integral construction, there wasn't much that could be done with it. Sharpie or graphite never really helped either. Fortunately Spyderco took care of me.

In terms of lock stick being a "feature", I'm calling BS. Anybody who tries to sell you a knife featuring lock stick is trying to hide a material or geometry problem.

 

[craytab]

I believe you are conflating "easily" and "quickly".

Many slip joints are easily one hand opened if one knows how (just as standard transmissions are easily shifted if one knows how). The trick is to find slip joints with pinchable main blades.

Pinchable slip joints can't be one hand opened as quickly as modern designs.

I'm not conflating anything. I can open my modern knives much more easily one handed (and close them) than any of my slip joints. I also don't need to seek out these special slip joints that require more knowledge and tricks to get them to do what I need; that's why I carry a modern folder and or a fix blade. That said, I do carry a slip joint most days. It is hard to beat a good VIC SAK with all the tools I like! And a GEC with micarta is so nice. That wharncliffe above is not only special but damn useful.

But hey, if you start a thread on pinchable main blade slip joints and want to start that topic of discussion here in GKD, I'd give it a read and possibly chime in. Might be fun and informative. With that said, I doubt the subject is the topic of discussion in this thread, so I'll be done talking about it here.

 

[Dallas T]

A good sticky lock inspires confidence in my opinion, way better than slipping! My 2cents

 

[Danke42]

What kind of slip joints open with one hand? I've see the ones with the crescent nipped out of the end of the blade so you hook it on your boot or pocket but not much else.

Any slip joints I have the walk is pretty stiff, just not something I can picture opening with one hand under most circumstances.

 

[Lapedog]

Hello everyone. I just wanted to post something that's on my mind. As I was sitting here watching TV and fidgeting with a favorite knife of mine (I won't mention brand names since this post isn't about brands but about locks) I noticed that the knife's lock is getting kinda of sticky again since the sharpie I applied to the lock face has worn off. The knife is a titanium handled frame lock with a S30V blade. It does not have a steel lock insert. The stickiness is nothing to where you would need anything to pry the lock open but sticky enough to where it sometimes "pops" when I open it. I was sitting here thinking of putting some more sharpie on it or trying something new like anti-oxidant compound that I saw someone use on YouTube that seem to work wonders when it hit me, what's the problem with having a mildly sticky lock? Seems to me that having a sticky lock that won't give during applied pressure say doing something like spine whacking or batonlng is better than having a freely releasing lock that does give and pop open. I've had frame and liner lock knives in the past that released very freely but could be forced open by merely applying hand pressure only! I admit I fell into the mindset that I must have a lock that releases freely and not be sticky but as I set here playing with this knife I'm kinda changing my opinion about this issue. This is just one of my rambling thoughts and I hope I didn't bore everyone who read this but what's your thinking on this issue? A sticky lock that holds or a free lock that might not hold?

When Michael Walker designed the first versions of his improved liner lock, the linerlock which modern ones are based on, he considered abit of lockstick to be a feature rather than a fault.

Here’s two issues though; one if you are relying on lockstick to prevent your lock from closing that is an issue. Lock geometry should be what keeps a lock from closing. Lockstick often doesn’t take that much force to overcome so I wouldn’t want to count on it.

Two lockstick often means that the lockface is contacting the tang with more force than it needs. (Or it could be a surface finish problem) This tends to mean a lock that sticks seems to be a lock that wears over faster.

Here’s a tip to prevent your lockstickint folders from wearing out. You will notice that lockstickint folders tend to leave a black mark on the tang lockface where the lock contacts. This is worn off titanium. On some folders letting this acumulate can cause lockslip or other issues but on many it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then never clean that black smudge off. Not only will you lose the lockstick but you will slow down the wear of the Ti lockface.

PS: One armed jack slipjoints are a slippy that is made to be one hand opened. I know many friction folders that one hand open, not many slipjoints.

 

[pinnah]

What kind of slip joints open with one hand?

One hand opening of a slip joint is possible when the main blade is "pinchable". There are three design features that make a blade pinchable.

Knives with a pronounced clip and well placed nail nick are pinchable. The old style single blade folding hunters including the Case Clasp Knife or Schrade "Mustang" are examples.

Second, knives with small frames compared to the blade height are pinchable. The sodbuster pattern and some Laguiole style knives have this feature.

Lastly, knives with easy open cut out, so-called EO patterns, can usually be pinched.


Most traditional lock-backs can also be opened using the pinch approach.

There may be some disagreement on what is meant by "easy". I consider standard transmissions to be "easy" but they do require some knowledge and practice. Traditionals slip joints as above are easy to open one handed in the same way. You need to know how and you need to practice enough to get it.

 

[Danke42]

One hand opening of a slip joint is possible when the main blade is "pinchable". There are three design features that make a blade pinchable.

Knives with a pronounced clip and well placed nail nick are pinchable. The old style single blade folding hunters including the Case Clasp Knife or Schrade "Mustang" are examples.

Second, knives with small frames compared to the blade height are pinchable. The sodbuster pattern and some Laguiole style knives have this feature.

Lastly, knives with easy open cut out, so-called EO patterns, can usually be pinched.


Most traditional lock-backs can also be opened using the pinch approach.

There may be some disagreement on what is meant by "easy". I consider standard transmissions to be "easy" but they do require some knowledge and practice. Traditionals slip joints as above are easy to open one handed in the same way. You need to know how and you need to practice enough to get it.

I can pinch those just fine, I've got a GEC with an EO notch in my pocket right now. But I can only pinch the blade from noon to one, can't get it all the way or even to the half stop with just one hand. What's the gag?

 

[miso2]

I like the way my Spydiechef lock up deep with mild stickiness.

 

[Mick_1KRR]

Just my personal opinion, but i can't stand sticky locks. I don't like feeling the galling of the lock every single time i decide to use it or play with it, just knowing it's wearing away material on a micro level each time annoys me to the point where i just don't enjoy the knife anymore. The only frame lock i own now days is an Umnumzaan because i love it's build and looks, plus it was a gift from the mrs that i'll never sell. I had a large sebenza 21 that stuck so hard and nothing would fix it, and i mean nothing. I sold the knife to a guy who didn't care and just wanted it. These days i prefer steel on steel, either Tri-ad locks, compression, steel liner locks like the Spydie Military or axis. I don't buy into the idea about lock stick being a safety feature, if that were true, it means every single manufacturer selling knives with steel inserts now is knowingly selling unsafe knives to the public. All it needs is better geometry and/or correct materials to use for the lock interface. Plus, lock stick is inconsistent at best, so it's a poorly implemented safety feature. It's like saying 'well the front door of my house is super hard to unlock, sometimes i need pliers to turn the key, but hey it makes it harder for thieves to pick the lock so it's safer' Just my opinion, everyone feels differently of course.

 

[SteelJunkee]

Imo, Sticky locks wear faster and sometimes becomes a real pita.

 

[Someone1]

Locks, be it frame, liner, or sub-frame, are supposed to mildy gall. That's if someone wants a tool. If someone wants a stick free lock then they are concerned with the knife's fidgetability. That's fine, but just know whether you want a fidget toy or a tool. If a company is more worried about ease of disengagement of the lock than of the lock operating as it should, then simply realize you're buying a toy, not a tool.

And I seriously doubt anyone has, through real world use, ever encountered a lock face from a good company that genuinely wears out from anything but purposeful and unnecessary abuse or a manufacturing defect.

In reality, most people here want high end toys rather than tools and companies know that so they produce toys.

Locks that operate on different principles than frame, sub-frame, or liners are exactly that, different. You won't see these arguments about the triad or compression or axis type locks because they can be smooth and perform as tools. Different strokes for different folks. But ask yourself if you want a tool or a toy and if you want a tool with a lock that performs smoothly and yet still functions as a tool, don't buy a knife with frame, sub-frame, or liner lock.

It'd be like asking for a backlock knife that has no tension to keep the blade in the handle just because you want to fidget with it. It defeats a major intended purpose of the feature.

 

[Officer's Match]

One of the reasons I prefer titanium framelocks not to have a steel insert is I like a mild amount of stick.

 

[Lapedog]

I disagree that only knives that have lock stick are real tools. Proper geometry makes a good lock, not stickiness. If a lock stick is what is keeping your folder from having a lock failure then get ready to have a lock failure as most sticky knives lose their stick over time as the lock wears.

The feature of a true “tool” linerlock/framelock is supposed to be that under extreme spine pressure the lock goes all the way to the right and bows out to the left preventing the knife from closing while sacrificing the lock. Linerlocks that do this have the additionsl benefit of a left side scale to support that bow.

Watch this video for some examples of how a frame/linerlock is designed to fail. None of these are titanium locks and so likely none has lockstick.

 

[Someone1]

I disagree that only knives that have lock stick are real tools. Proper geometry makes a good lock, not stickiness. If a lock stick is what is keeping your folder from having a lock failure then get ready to have a lock failure as most sticky knives lose their stick over time as the lock wears.

The feature of a true “tool” linerlock/framelock is supposed to be that under extreme spine pressure the lock goes all the way to the right and bows out to the left preventing the knife from closing while sacrificing the lock. Linerlocks that do this have the additionsl benefit of a left side scale to support that bow.

Watch this video for some examples of how a frame/linerlock is designed to fail. None of these are titanium locks and so likely none has lockstick.

Most locks of this kind will have lock stick if they're designed correctly. You're right, it isn't the lock stick that's important, it's a proper design and execution. Almost every time that will include some amount of lock stick. Doesn't need to be a great deal, but it'll be enough to notice.

 

[Pilsner]

Most locks of this kind will have lock stick if they're designed correctly. You're right, it isn't the lock stick that's important, it's a proper design and execution. Almost every time that will include some amount of lock stick. Doesn't need to be a great deal, but it'll be enough to notice.

That is simply untrue. I have several excellent, reliable, well engineered steel liner lock knives. None have lock stick. I don’t know where you are getting your information but I would advise you to check your source.