Stop with the half stops

Lesknife said:
Maybe they shouldn’t drive cars with square wheels! And I’m not afraid of them I just don’t like them the same way I don’t like jeans that are absent of pockets and a fly.
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Does something like that even exist? Never heard of anything like that......
 
beezwax said:
I'd never turn away a nice slippie because it didn't have a half-stop, but I'd always prefer a half-stop. The WAY that a knife moves from open to half-stop is a large part of how I judge the action. I love it when it snaps to half with enough authority to actually travel slightly past the stop, and then reverses direction and comes to a rest at half, almost vibrating as it snaps to attention. To me, there is something immensely satisfying about an action that is tuned this way. It looks, feels, and sounds amazing.
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After all that’s what knives were made for! Seriously why is that a performance improvement?
 
Arathol said:
Does something like that even exist? Never heard of anything like that......
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Yea I was shopping for some jeans about a year ago in the big city and came across some skinny jeans that had elastic waist band and no pockets or belt loops and no fly. I just shook my head in disbelief and tossed them back on the shelf. The thing that was most confusing was they had sewing to look like pockets.
 
Lesknife said:
Yea I was shopping for some jeans about a year ago in the big city and came across some skinny jeans that had elastic waist band and no pockets or belt loops and no fly. I just shook my head in disbelief and tossed them back on the shelf. The thing that was most confusing was they had sewing to look like pockets.
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Those weren't jeans, those were jeggings if I understand the term correctly.
 
Lesknife said:
After all that’s what knives were made for! Seriously why is that a performance improvement?
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I wouldn't call it a "performance improvement".... half-stops don't make a knife cut any better. I just enjoy the feel of a crisp snap to half. Part of that may be that I'm always a little bit leery of letting blades slam shut into the blade well. I hate getting blade rap so more often than not I ease the blade closed. Half-stops are a risk-free way to enjoy the full power of the backspring :)
 
Lesknife said:
Yea I was shopping for some jeans about a year ago in the big city and came across some skinny jeans that had elastic waist band and no pockets or belt loops and no fly. I just shook my head in disbelief and tossed them back on the shelf. The thing that was most confusing was they had sewing to look like pockets.
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I can’t criticize what they wear today.. I can remember when these were popular.

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This puts a stop to everything :eek: Half-stops or cam😆:poop:

Please note, CASE took care of this very efficiently and quickly and I'm not a US resident. Extremely good service.
 
Jack Black said:
Unfortunately, the internet is full of rubbish! 😖 What a terrible piece of journalism, does nobody do any research, or even read books anymore?! 😩 The advantages/disadvantages of the half-stop are debateable, their historic origins can be researched, there is no 'murky mystery' (looking for the 'slaps forehead' emoticon! ;)) :thumbsup:
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Here you go...
palm.gif baldy.gif
 
uvSVbOA.jpg

A Roman Dog & Hare Folding Knife​

Folding knives were certainly in existence in Roman times, and may go back to the Ancient Greeks, but they were without springs, and what we usually call ‘friction folders’ here. They came in many different forms, and a number of knives from this period, are held in museums. Like, the more common fixed-blade knives, and the much later folding ‘spring knives’, folding knives were primarily used for eating food. Cutlery was expensive, and inns, and even most private banquets, did not usually provide it for guests.

l9UHK8a.jpg

A Lambsfoot from 800AD!!​

While folding knives declined still further in popularity, in Britain and Western Europe, after the Roman period, (in favour of various fixed-blade knives), there are well-preserved examples of folding knives from the 14th century, and from as early as the 9th, but they are scarce in number. During the later mediaeval period, we also see folding razors.

NOO5tBB.jpg

Reproduction of a common pattern Medieval folding knife by Tod Cutler​

Folding knives began to rise in popularity again in the 17th century, with puzzle knives, of various types, which had evolved in the late 16th century, becoming popular in England, France, and Spain. These rather eccentric folding knives were, however, soon superseded by ‘spring knives’ (or ‘spring-backed knives’). While these have commonly been ascribed to the latter part of the 17th century, the French cutlery historian, Marquadt (Eight Centuries of European Knives, Forks, and Spoons, Stuttgart, 1997 ) has shown that French spring-backed travelling cutlery dated to the beginning of the 17th century.

MzenirK.jpg

A French-influenced folding knife, from around 1780, made in Sheffield, by George Patten​

The invention of the spring knife transformed the pocket knife industry. As Simon Moore notes in Cutlery For The Table: A History of British Table and Pocket Cutlery, (Sheffield 1999): “The blade was held in an open, half-open or closed position by a spring pressing down with considerable force upon the square-shaped and hinged tang”

The earliest spring knives had a straight-edge, and a narrow bolster, with the back of the blade curving down to the point, like a Sheepsfoot blade (or rather, one type of Sheepsfoot blade). Handles, or hafts, were of pistol-grip form, with no nail nick until the later 18th century, (by which time handle designs had changed). Steels were softer than today, and knives undoubtedly used more, and retained for longer. The friction between the corners of the square tang and the spring, caused wear, which would cause the point of the knife to rise in the frame. The pistol grip handle covered the point of the blade as age and wear caused it to rise.

The invention of the spring knife led to an explosion in the popularity of folding knives, and likewise in patterns and form, which reached a peak in the 18th and 19th centuries. According to Moore (above), “Examples of early 18th century folding-knives show that their mechanism remained unaltered from the time of the spring-back knife’s invention.” French cutlery design and innovation led the world in this period, with English cutlers copying many of the French styles. These included the ‘couteau sans clous’ or ‘rivetless’ knife, invented in the later 17th century, from which we get the two-bladed Penknife. As Moore notes, “The blade tangs of the couteau were square, in the traditional manner, so that the blade could be half-opened. Eventually the squared corners became rounded with use and the spring pressing down on the worn and reduced tang caused the blade point to remain slightly raised out of the handle. To obviate this undesirable effect of wear and tear, French clasp knife makers produced knife blades with rounded tangs; the springs were also slightly bowed to compensate for the change. This removed the ease of holding the blade half open, but the life of the tang was at least doubled and the blade action was smoother and safer to close. This idea was copied by only a very few English makers who perhaps saw that some built-in obsolescence could do their trade no harm.”

So, as can be seen, the square tang, or ‘half-stop’ is not a safety feature, or an improvement, it is rather arguably like all traditional folding knives, an anachronism. It goes well with the oldest forms of English spring knives, such as Barlow knives, because these knives were originally made with square tangs. Square tangs are at their most attractive, I think, in the ‘square and clean’ (or ‘clean and square’) joint, in which Sheffield cutlers once took great pride. This however is not a practical viewpoint, but an aesthetic one, since the square tang is, arguably, technically inferior, and has largely been superseded by the round ‘cam tang’.
 
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Jack Black said:
uvSVbOA.jpg

A Roman Dog & Hare Folding Knife​

Folding knives were certainly in existence in Roman times, and may go back to the Ancient Greeks, but they were without springs, and what we usually call ‘friction folders’ here. They came in many different forms, and a number of knives from this period, are held in museums. Like, the more common fixed-blade knives, and the much later folding ‘spring knives’, folding knives were primarily used for eating food. Cutlery was expensive, and inns, and even most private banquets, did not usually provide it for guests.

l9UHK8a.jpg

A Lambsfoot from 800AD!!​

While folding knives declined still further in popularity, in Britain and Western Europe, after the Roman period, (in favour of various fixed-blade knives), there are well-preserved examples of folding knives from the 14th century, and from as early as the 9th, but they are scarce in number. During the later mediaeval period, we also see folding razors.

NOO5tBB.jpg

Reproduction of a common pattern Medieval folding knife by Tod Cutler​

Folding knives began to rise in popularity again in the 17th century, with puzzle knives, of various types, which had evolved in the late 16th century, becoming popular in England, France, and Spain. These rather eccentric folding knives were, however, soon superseded by ‘spring knives’ (or ‘spring-backed knives’). While these have commonly been ascribed to the latter part of the 17th century, the French cutlery historian, Marquadt (Eight Centuries of European Knives, Forks, and Spoons, Stuttgart, 1997 ) has shown that French spring-backed travelling cutlery dated to the beginning of the 17th century.

MzenirK.jpg

A French-influenced folding knife, from around 1780, made in Sheffield, by George Patten​

The invention of the spring knife transformed the pocket knife industry. As Simon Moore notes in Cutlery For The Table: A History of British Table and Pocket Cutlery, (Sheffield 1999): “The blade was held in an open, half-open or closed position by a spring pressing down with considerable force upon the square-shaped and hinged tang”

The earliest spring knives had a straight-edge, and a narrow bolster, with the back of the blade curving down to the point, like a Sheepsfoot blade (or rather, one type of Sheepsfoot blade). Handles, or hafts, were of pistol-grip form, with no nail nick until the later 18th century, (by which time handle designs had changed). Steels were softer than today, and knives undoubtedly used more, and retained for longer. The friction between the corners of the square tang and the spring, caused wear, which would cause the point of the knife to rise in the frame. The pistol grip handle covered the point of the blade as age and wear caused it to rise.

The invention of the spring knife led to an explosion in the popularity of folding knives, and likewise in patterns and form, which reached a peak in the 18th and 19th centuries. According to Moore (above), “Examples of early 18th century folding-knives show that their mechanism remained unaltered from the time of the spring-back knife’s invention.” French cutlery design and innovation led the world in this period, with English cutlers copying many of the French styles. These included the ‘couteau sans clous’ or ‘rivetless’ knife, invented in the later 17th century, from which we get the two-bladed Penknife. As Moore notes, “The blade tangs of the couteau were square, in the traditional manner, so that the blade could be half-opened. Eventually the squared corners became rounded with use and the spring pressing down on the worn and reduced tang caused the blade point to remain slightly raised out of the handle. To obviate this undesirable effect of wear and tear, French clasp knife makers produced knife blades with rounded tangs; the springs were also slightly bowed to compensate for the change. This removed the ease of holding the blade half open, but the life of the tang was at least doubled and the blade action was smoother and safer to close. This idea was copied by only a very few English makers who perhaps saw that some built-in obsolescence could do their trade no harm.”

So, as can be seen, the square tang, or ‘half-stop’ is not a safety feature, or an improvement, it is rather arguably like all traditional folding knives, an anachronism. It goes well with the oldest forms of English spring knives, such as Barlow knives, because these knives were originally made with square tangs. Square tangs are at their most attractive, I think, in the ‘square and clean’ (or ‘clean and square’) joint, in which Sheffield cutlers once took great pride. This however is not a practical viewpoint, but an aesthetic one, since the square tang is, arguably, technically inferior, and has largely been superseded by the round ‘cam tang’.
Click to expand...
Excellent post, Jack. Thank you.
 
Jack Black said:
uvSVbOA.jpg

A Roman Dog & Hare Folding Knife​

Folding knives were certainly in existence in Roman times, and may go back to the Ancient Greeks, but they were without springs, and what we usually call ‘friction folders’ here. They came in many different forms, and a number of knives from this period, are held in museums. Like, the more common fixed-blade knives, and the much later folding ‘spring knives’, folding knives were primarily used for eating food. Cutlery was expensive, and inns, and even most private banquets, did not usually provide it for guests.

l9UHK8a.jpg

A Lambsfoot from 800AD!!​

While folding knives declined still further in popularity, in Britain and Western Europe, after the Roman period, (in favour of various fixed-blade knives), there are well-preserved examples of folding knives from the 14th century, and from as early as the 9th, but they are scarce in number. During the later mediaeval period, we also see folding razors.

NOO5tBB.jpg

Reproduction of a common pattern Medieval folding knife by Tod Cutler​

Folding knives began to rise in popularity again in the 17th century, with puzzle knives, of various types, which had evolved in the late 16th century, becoming popular in England, France, and Spain. These rather eccentric folding knives were, however, soon superseded by ‘spring knives’ (or ‘spring-backed knives’). While these have commonly been ascribed to the latter part of the 17th century, the French cutlery historian, Marquadt (Eight Centuries of European Knives, Forks, and Spoons, Stuttgart, 1997 ) has shown that French spring-backed travelling cutlery dated to the beginning of the 17th century.

MzenirK.jpg

A French-influenced folding knife, from around 1780, made in Sheffield, by George Patten​

The invention of the spring knife transformed the pocket knife industry. As Simon Moore notes in Cutlery For The Table: A History of British Table and Pocket Cutlery, (Sheffield 1999): “The blade was held in an open, half-open or closed position by a spring pressing down with considerable force upon the square-shaped and hinged tang”

The earliest spring knives had a straight-edge, and a narrow bolster, with the back of the blade curving down to the point, like a Sheepsfoot blade (or rather, one type of Sheepsfoot blade). Handles, or hafts, were of pistol-grip form, with no nail nick until the later 18th century, (by which time handle designs had changed). Steels were softer than today, and knives undoubtedly used more, and retained for longer. The friction between the corners of the square tang and the spring, caused wear, which would cause the point of the knife to rise in the frame. The pistol grip handle covered the point of the blade as age and wear caused it to rise.

The invention of the spring knife led to an explosion in the popularity of folding knives, and likewise in patterns and form, which reached a peak in the 18th and 19th centuries. According to Moore (above), “Examples of early 18th century folding-knives show that their mechanism remained unaltered from the time of the spring-back knife’s invention.” French cutlery design and innovation led the world in this period, with English cutlers copying many of the French styles. These included the ‘couteau sans clous’ or ‘rivetless’ knife, invented in the later 17th century, from which we get the two-bladed Penknife. As Moore notes, “The blade tangs of the couteau were square, in the traditional manner, so that the blade could be half-opened. Eventually the squared corners became rounded with use and the spring pressing down on the worn and reduced tang caused the blade point to remain slightly raised out of the handle. To obviate this undesirable effect of wear and tear, French clasp knife makers produced knife blades with rounded tangs; the springs were also slightly bowed to compensate for the change. This removed the ease of holding the blade half open, but the life of the tang was at least doubled and the blade action was smoother and safer to close. This idea was copied by only a very few English makers who perhaps saw that some built-in obsolescence could do their trade no harm.”

So, as can be seen, the square tang, or ‘half-stop’ is not a safety feature, or an improvement, it is rather arguably like all traditional folding knives, an anachronism. It goes well with the oldest forms of English spring knives, such as Barlow knives, because these knives were originally made with square tangs. Square tangs are at their most attractive, I think, in the ‘square and clean’ (or ‘clean and square’) joint, in which Sheffield cutlers once took great pride. This however is not a practical viewpoint, but an aesthetic one, since the square tang is, arguably, technically inferior, and has largely been superseded by the round ‘cam tang’.
Click to expand...
Wonderful post, as usual, Jack!! Long Live the Square Tang!!
 
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