Stop with the half stops

dundak said:
I’m getting curmudgeonly. Tired of every knife having to have a half stop. I like a nice firm, smooth cam tang. I especially hate it on round bolstered knives and stockmen. It does not show better build quality. Just stop it.
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You stop it.
 
I have plenty of knives with both that I really like, but my preference is for my knives to have a half stop. Not really a reason, just the way I like them!
 
Jack Black said:
uvSVbOA.jpg

A Roman Dog & Hare Folding Knife​

Folding knives were certainly in existence in Roman times, and may go back to the Ancient Greeks, but they were without springs, and what we usually call ‘friction folders’ here. They came in many different forms, and a number of knives from this period, are held in museums. Like, the more common fixed-blade knives, and the much later folding ‘spring knives’, folding knives were primarily used for eating food. Cutlery was expensive, and inns, and even most private banquets, did not usually provide it for guests.

l9UHK8a.jpg

A Lambsfoot from 800AD!!​

While folding knives declined still further in popularity, in Britain and Western Europe, after the Roman period, (in favour of various fixed-blade knives), there are well-preserved examples of folding knives from the 14th century, and from as early as the 9th, but they are scarce in number. During the later mediaeval period, we also see folding razors.

NOO5tBB.jpg

Reproduction of a common pattern Medieval folding knife by Tod Cutler​

Folding knives began to rise in popularity again in the 17th century, with puzzle knives, of various types, which had evolved in the late 16th century, becoming popular in England, France, and Spain. These rather eccentric folding knives were, however, soon superseded by ‘spring knives’ (or ‘spring-backed knives’). While these have commonly been ascribed to the latter part of the 17th century, the French cutlery historian, Marquadt (Eight Centuries of European Knives, Forks, and Spoons, Stuttgart, 1997 ) has shown that French spring-backed travelling cutlery dated to the beginning of the 17th century.

MzenirK.jpg

A French-influenced folding knife, from around 1780, made in Sheffield, by George Patten​

The invention of the spring knife transformed the pocket knife industry. As Simon Moore notes in Cutlery For The Table: A History of British Table and Pocket Cutlery, (Sheffield 1999): “The blade was held in an open, half-open or closed position by a spring pressing down with considerable force upon the square-shaped and hinged tang”

The earliest spring knives had a straight-edge, and a narrow bolster, with the back of the blade curving down to the point, like a Sheepsfoot blade (or rather, one type of Sheepsfoot blade). Handles, or hafts, were of pistol-grip form, with no nail nick until the later 18th century, (by which time handle designs had changed). Steels were softer than today, and knives undoubtedly used more, and retained for longer. The friction between the corners of the square tang and the spring, caused wear, which would cause the point of the knife to rise in the frame. The pistol grip handle covered the point of the blade as age and wear caused it to rise.

The invention of the spring knife led to an explosion in the popularity of folding knives, and likewise in patterns and form, which reached a peak in the 18th and 19th centuries. According to Moore (above), “Examples of early 18th century folding-knives show that their mechanism remained unaltered from the time of the spring-back knife’s invention.” French cutlery design and innovation led the world in this period, with English cutlers copying many of the French styles. These included the ‘couteau sans clous’ or ‘rivetless’ knife, invented in the later 17th century, from which we get the two-bladed Penknife. As Moore notes, “The blade tangs of the couteau were square, in the traditional manner, so that the blade could be half-opened. Eventually the squared corners became rounded with use and the spring pressing down on the worn and reduced tang caused the blade point to remain slightly raised out of the handle. To obviate this undesirable effect of wear and tear, French clasp knife makers produced knife blades with rounded tangs; the springs were also slightly bowed to compensate for the change. This removed the ease of holding the blade half open, but the life of the tang was at least doubled and the blade action was smoother and safer to close. This idea was copied by only a very few English makers who perhaps saw that some built-in obsolescence could do their trade no harm.”

So, as can be seen, the square tang, or ‘half-stop’ is not a safety feature, or an improvement, it is rather arguably like all traditional folding knives, an anachronism. It goes well with the oldest forms of English spring knives, such as Barlow knives, because these knives were originally made with square tangs. Square tangs are at their most attractive, I think, in the ‘square and clean’ (or ‘clean and square’) joint, in which Sheffield cutlers once took great pride. This however is not a practical viewpoint, but an aesthetic one, since the square tang is, arguably, technically inferior, and has largely been superseded by the round ‘cam tang’.
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I really enjoyed this post, Jack! Loads of historical info. I still like 'em both!
 
I was cutting the plastic on a 5 gallon bucket one time. Figured I was putting the blade force toward opening the knife and was being safe.
The knife/my hand "bounced" as it cut through and the plastic friction/change in force/whatever worked to close the knife.
The half stop saved my fingers and allowed this to be a lesson more easily learned.
 
Jack Black said:
uvSVbOA.jpg

A Roman Dog & Hare Folding Knife​

Folding knives were certainly in existence in Roman times, and may go back to the Ancient Greeks, but they were without springs, and what we usually call ‘friction folders’ here. They came in many different forms, and a number of knives from this period, are held in museums. Like, the more common fixed-blade knives, and the much later folding ‘spring knives’, folding knives were primarily used for eating food. Cutlery was expensive, and inns, and even most private banquets, did not usually provide it for guests.

l9UHK8a.jpg

A Lambsfoot from 800AD!!​

While folding knives declined still further in popularity, in Britain and Western Europe, after the Roman period, (in favour of various fixed-blade knives), there are well-preserved examples of folding knives from the 14th century, and from as early as the 9th, but they are scarce in number. During the later mediaeval period, we also see folding razors.

NOO5tBB.jpg

Reproduction of a common pattern Medieval folding knife by Tod Cutler​

Folding knives began to rise in popularity again in the 17th century, with puzzle knives, of various types, which had evolved in the late 16th century, becoming popular in England, France, and Spain. These rather eccentric folding knives were, however, soon superseded by ‘spring knives’ (or ‘spring-backed knives’). While these have commonly been ascribed to the latter part of the 17th century, the French cutlery historian, Marquadt (Eight Centuries of European Knives, Forks, and Spoons, Stuttgart, 1997 ) has shown that French spring-backed travelling cutlery dated to the beginning of the 17th century.

MzenirK.jpg

A French-influenced folding knife, from around 1780, made in Sheffield, by George Patten​

The invention of the spring knife transformed the pocket knife industry. As Simon Moore notes in Cutlery For The Table: A History of British Table and Pocket Cutlery, (Sheffield 1999): “The blade was held in an open, half-open or closed position by a spring pressing down with considerable force upon the square-shaped and hinged tang”

The earliest spring knives had a straight-edge, and a narrow bolster, with the back of the blade curving down to the point, like a Sheepsfoot blade (or rather, one type of Sheepsfoot blade). Handles, or hafts, were of pistol-grip form, with no nail nick until the later 18th century, (by which time handle designs had changed). Steels were softer than today, and knives undoubtedly used more, and retained for longer. The friction between the corners of the square tang and the spring, caused wear, which would cause the point of the knife to rise in the frame. The pistol grip handle covered the point of the blade as age and wear caused it to rise.

The invention of the spring knife led to an explosion in the popularity of folding knives, and likewise in patterns and form, which reached a peak in the 18th and 19th centuries. According to Moore (above), “Examples of early 18th century folding-knives show that their mechanism remained unaltered from the time of the spring-back knife’s invention.” French cutlery design and innovation led the world in this period, with English cutlers copying many of the French styles. These included the ‘couteau sans clous’ or ‘rivetless’ knife, invented in the later 17th century, from which we get the two-bladed Penknife. As Moore notes, “The blade tangs of the couteau were square, in the traditional manner, so that the blade could be half-opened. Eventually the squared corners became rounded with use and the spring pressing down on the worn and reduced tang caused the blade point to remain slightly raised out of the handle. To obviate this undesirable effect of wear and tear, French clasp knife makers produced knife blades with rounded tangs; the springs were also slightly bowed to compensate for the change. This removed the ease of holding the blade half open, but the life of the tang was at least doubled and the blade action was smoother and safer to close. This idea was copied by only a very few English makers who perhaps saw that some built-in obsolescence could do their trade no harm.”

So, as can be seen, the square tang, or ‘half-stop’ is not a safety feature, or an improvement, it is rather arguably like all traditional folding knives, an anachronism. It goes well with the oldest forms of English spring knives, such as Barlow knives, because these knives were originally made with square tangs. Square tangs are at their most attractive, I think, in the ‘square and clean’ (or ‘clean and square’) joint, in which Sheffield cutlers once took great pride. This however is not a practical viewpoint, but an aesthetic one, since the square tang is, arguably, technically inferior, and has largely been superseded by the round ‘cam tang’.
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Jack,
You are not only cultured, you write with style ! Excellent post. It's a pleasure to read you.
About the cam tang vs half stop i don't have much to say as long as ( be sure i don't want to put oil on the fire) the blade and the spring are made of carbon steel.

Dan.
 
dantzk8 said:
Jack,
You are not only cultured, you write with style ! Excellent post. It's a pleasure to read you.
About the cam tang vs half stop i don't have much to say as long as ( be sure i don't want to put oil on the fire) the blade and the spring are made of carbon steel.

Dan.
Click to expand...
Many thanks Dan :)
 
Half stop plus too strong back spring, plus stupid match strike nail pulls equals loss of control when opening and broken / shredded fingernails in my experience. I don’t like any of the above
 
calm said:
I appreciate the effort needed to get a halfstop executed, with the spring flat with the liners. It shows a bit of extra work.
The Swiss Army Knives do not have them and they are still popular. (there is one in the flat screwdriver/bottle opener)
It is funny that, as pointed previously, if you get used to knives with halfstops and then get one without you need some adjustment time and vice versa.
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One maker told me 1/2 stops were easier to make. He said " for example it's easier to draw a perfect square than a perfect circle."
 
I found this old post from Kerry Hampton KnifeHead KnifeHead , a Knife Maker and friend of the late Tony Bose. I thought it was worth posting here.
KnifeHead said:
Here's one of many threads on the topic http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677497

I think half stops or cam ends are just something you learn to deal with if you like slip joints. The way they are made is traditional based on the pattern and that's just the way it is. In the thread I linked above, I posted this simple rule of thumb about how to determine the kind of tang a knife will have:

For those wondering which knives traditionally have half stops and which knives have cam ends, here is a simple(and GENERAL) rule of thumb: Round-ended knives have cam ends ie., Whittlers, stockmen, toothpicks, toenails, knives with sunk joints, etc. Square ended knives (some of which may have a radiused end but are NOT CONSIDERED ROUND ENDS) have half stops, ie Trappers, jacks, hunters, etc.

Keep in mind, with slip joints, there are exceptions that defy generalizations BUT this generalization works most of the time. You can find knives that have both half stop and cam end blades in them. I like those because they have something for everyone. ;)

your mileage may vary/void where prohibited by law/do not remove this label under penalty of death/no smoking/brush your teeth after every meal/may cause temporary blindness/for an erection lasting more than 4 hours call a physician/It was Bush's fault/etc.
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brownshoe said:
One maker told me 1/2 stops were easier to make. He said " for example it's easier to draw a perfect square than a perfect circle."
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The problem with that logic is that it becomes difficult to ensure the back spring is flush in the half stop position.
With a round tang that isn't an issue.
I prefer round tangs on lock back slip joints personally. YMMV
 
Wild Willie said:
The zen philosopher Basho once wrote: "A flute with no holes is not a flute, and a knife without a half stop is not a knife."
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Hey I know a guy called Basho....he drinks the Dalmeny Bowls Club...but this Bashos philosophy is more ..."Drive my golf cart to the pub for beer...because of my broken leg...and roll it sideways in the mud on the way home.."
Might be a different Basho..
 
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