Stopped by Police With EDC?

[leghog]

I don't know what's worse, the idea that LEO's might violate a law abiding citizens constitutional rights and arrest and imprison them on false charges simply because they don't like that citizens attitude, or the idea that the citizens of this country consider such actions to be a normal way of life.

Exactly.

 

[evan03]

I'm from Idaho this topic seems silly yes most all of have some sort of knife in our pocket. No I do not fill it necesarry to make it a point to tell the officer. He already knows that I'm highly likely to have a rifle and pistol on the seat next to me before he even walks up to the window.

I guess it could became regional thing. I'm glad I live where people have common sense

 

[fatheadhill]

I haven't read all of this thread, but as an LEO I definitely recommend being up front and honest. If you're asked if you have any weapons on you that would include pocket knives. Usually I ask(lightheartedly) if you have any guns, knives, bombs, bazooka, any weapons of any kind. I'm a knife nut myself, and most cops are gear heads on some level so someone carrying a knife is not out of the ordinary or even frowned upon. Not in my area at least. Honesty is always the best policy when dealing with law enforcement, and will often determine how you're treated. Someone being honest usually has nothing to hide and will be treated as such. Whereas some being less than truthful could be taken as suspicious behavior.

 

[addylo]

I always find it interesting when people give the advice- "Always be respectful and extra polite when dealing with law enforcement, otherwise they will find a reason to mess with you". What I hear when people give that advice is- "Cops are predisposed to abuse their authority and will violate your constitutional rights for no other reason but because they don't like your attitude". That doesn't really speak well of law enforcement in this country, does it?

Hmmm... is that what you take away from it?

It's not that you have to walk with kit gloves around an LEO. It is simply that it doesn't pay to be stupid and disrespectful to someone who has the power and authority to make your day really crappy.

It's a simple matter of civility and courtesy. Being disrespectful to anyone can have consequences. A negative attitude automatically gives the advantage to whoever it is aimed at by changing the rules of engagement. You are willingly handing them power over you by giving them an reason to become defensive/aggressive. I thought this was common sense but obviously not.

 

[tkeegan]

I have had a CHL for 4 years now, and have been pulled over by LEO's maybe 4 times in those 4 years. Each time I hand the CHL with DL underneath and they will ask me if I am armed and I will say yes, where is the firearm, and I tell them precisely where it is and that I also have a folder in my pocket. Not once has the LEO asked me to give up my weapons, and I haven't been issued a citation since, once I received a written warning for tail light out. As stated before law enforcement appreciates courtesy like the rest of the general population. At least here in Texas the prevailing attitude of law enforcement seems to be that CHL holders have been vetted, and as a rule are safe.

 

[Charlie_K]

Hmmm... is that what you take away from it?

That's pretty much it, based on accounts both on the news and by members here.

It is simply that it doesn't pay to be stupid and disrespectful to someone who has the power and authority to make your day really crappy.

That's no excuse for breaking the law to make your day crappy. Like the one cop who got upset with an intoxicated woman being unable to follow his commands while she was at the precinct, so he picked her up and hurled her back into her cell with such force he shattered her face in the process. And then after shattering her face he charged her with assaulting a police officer to justify his actions. The ONLY reason he's being investigated for wrongdoing is because his actions were caught on camera.

And then there's the case of the 20 year old whose only offense was trash talk. Half a dozen officers tackled him to the ground, and held him down as the beat him repeatedly with batons and kneed him, and then a K9 officer rolls up and immediately sicks his german shepherd on the 20 year old's neck. None of these officers are being investigated.

And then there's all the arrests and even beatings stemming from nothing more than videotaping police officers in public.

Serious reform is needed. Charges that stem from contempt of cop need to be an offense that can get an officer fired for the bad precedent it sets for the entire force. Nobody, especially not the police, should be rewarded for bad behavior. But that's how things are going.

 

[sirupatespecial]

Not sure what the comment was intended to convey? I frequently have clients charged with crimes, that are not, in fact, illegal.

Had one client (a fire fighter moving all his belongings), get stopped. He had a .22 caliber pistol in a holster on the seat in the vehicle. It was not loaded, and was in plain sight. The officer charged him with "having a gun in plain sight".

The statute he cited to was one for leaving a gun in your vehicle (it has to be unloaded and out of sight, and you have to lock your doors).

Can you guess what the prosecutor said about that case when I told her the officer did not know the law?

"Officers would not be charging people for stuff that is not illegal". I told her to read the law........I even handed her a print out (since I could not force her to look at it on her computer in court). Her response was "you can't make me read the statute..........If you want to make me read it, write a motion, or set it for trial."

My response to that was that if she refused to even read the law she had a duty to up hold, I would set it for a jury trial, and make a huge sceene and demand costs from her office, and then file a bar complaint.

She read the statute, and dismissed the case. She, the prosecutor, did not know the law, and was snide about being informed, or forced to read it.

It has been a common occurrence in my experience.



Unless you are saying you are fine with the people that our government pays to enforce the laws, to be ignorant of said laws?


If an officer decides to give you a criminal citation, even if your actions were not illegal, you have just lost money (unless you are unemployed, and happen to live walking distance from the court house, and have nothing better to do).

The county I practice in is a huge county. Many people who are criminally cited are only passing through (visiting for a concert from Canada, or driving from one side of the state to to the other). If you have to come back to my county from Canada, or from Seattle, or Montana, or California, you have just lost hundreds or thousands of dollars. You will not have an opportunity to argue with the judge or the prosecutor about the merits of your case at your first appearance (arraignment). They will only want to know if you are pleading guilty or not guilty, and if you qualify for a public defender or intend to hire private counsel.

You will then have your court date reset to another date a few weeks to a month out. You will then come back again, and possibly a third time, to even have a trial date set (if that is your demand). You can loose thousands in lost work and travel expenses to deal with a case in which you did nothing against the law. Do you believe that the officer, or the prosecutor is going to smile, and hand you a check to cover your losses and say "oops, my bad"? I can guarantee you they won't. If you can get a case dismissed, even where you were not in the wrong, they will act like you are getting a huge favor, and were likely doing something wrong, but they just can't prove it.

If you don't show to the first court date, you will get a warrant. You can pay to have it quashed, and if you miss another date the warrant won't be quashed where I am at. You can either sit in jail if they find you, or pay the bail.

If you live in another state, the warrant may suspend your license in WA, and eventually suspend your license in your home state. At which point every time you have contact with law enforcement while driving, you will be criminally cited. Until you come back to WA, and deal with your case.

I have had clients from other states, or Canada finally decide they wanted to deal with a case 20 years later, because it was causing them trouble, even though they said they were never coming back to WA.

Thanks for your answer. That was exactly my point. Although I wasn't nearly as concise as you. Which is why I wanted an attorney to explain.

I know there are conflicting views on the subject of talking to the cops. Some here apparently feel that when cops question you, where are you going, where have you been, you wouldn't mind if I searched the car, do you have a weapon, etc. that answering their questions fully and honestly is the best way to handle it.

What are your feelings on talking to the police? And in the context of the OP what would you say if asked during a routine stop "do you have a weapon"?

 

[jc57]

To the original topic. If I were stopped by the police in my vehicle (ostensibly for a suspected traffic violation), if I were asked specifically if I had any knives, my response would be (depending on what I actually had with me) "a couple of small pocket knives, and if you count them I have a couple of Leatherman tools with me."

If I were asked in general about "weapons" I'd say "I have a handgun carry permit" and tell them where the pistol was, if I happened to be carrying that day. I'd then follow their instructions about showing them the permit or the firearm. None of my knives are considered weapons under my state's laws, but if asked about knives I don't have a problem telling them or showing them if that's what they instruct me to do.

If the question were raised about why I carried more than one (knife) I'd explain that I'm a knife collector so sometimes I just carry an extra for fun. Considering that mine are all relatively small and mostly non-locking slipjoints I can't see anyone really being concerned about it.

If I'm getting a ticket, that's cool, it's the guy's job. I'll politely respond to their questions in a non-combative way. If I don't like it, that's what the court system is there for.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I'm planning to move up to WA soon you mind if I PM you and ask you a few questions?

Feel free.

 

[EBHM4]

I've been stopped by police twice in all my 21 years and I wasn't asked about any weapons. I got through the whole thing without my folder having to leave my pocket. One was a traffic stop, the other was myself and a girl stopped on the side of a country road late at night and I was going to nab a sunflower from a field. The hilarious part was that the girl got real freaked out and tried to make excuses for being pulled over, I just laughed and honestly said "Officer We pulled over so I could go steal a sunflower." He just looked at me incredulously and said "Really?" When I answered an affirmative he asked if we'd been drinking haha! But from there he just told us "Alright get out of here and have a nice night."

My rules for LEO interactions are keep your hands visible, be respectful and honest as you should be to anyone, and don't be stupid. It's done well for me. If asked about weapons, I'll answer "Nothing illegal but I do have a pocket knife in my front right pocket."

 

[timw1]

My advice to you would be to tell the Officer the truth if you have a knife on your person if asked during a traffic stop. Why lie if you have done nothing wrong and the knife you possess is legal? You do not know why the Officer has stopped you. Maybe the Officer told you he stopped you because you were doing 40 in a 25 mph zone. Maybe you were doing 40 in a 25, but the real reason he stopped you was for something else. The police will not always tell you why you were stopped. Maybe your car matches a description of a car that has been seen in a neighborhood where there has been recent burglaries. Maybe you match the physical description of someone who recently attempted to abduct a child. The Officer does not know you or your intentions. I’ve been a police officer for 26 years. I’m a retired Lieutenant from a large city department, and now work as a police officer for a small town. Common sense will always prevail, and azzholes will always be azzholes.

 

[killgar]

Hmmm... is that what you take away from it?

Perhaps you don't see it, but your post only further proves my point. I will show you-

It is simply that it doesn't pay to be stupid and disrespectful to someone who has the power and authority to make your day really crappy.

It looks like what your saying is that if a cop considers a persons attitude to be "disrespectful" that they might abuse their power and violate that persons civil rights. After all, if a cop detains a citizen, or searches them, their property, or their vehicle, without a lawful reason, or without the citizens permission, then that cop is definitely violating that citizens civil rights. Personally, I consider it a very serious matter, and an inexcusable injustice when an LEO violates a citizens civil rights just because hey don't like that citizens attitude.

It's a simple matter of civility and courtesy.

Civility and courtesy goes BOTH WAYS. Or at least it should. I believe in showing every human being the same level of respect, civility, and courtesy, despite their position or occupation. And I will show a person such respect right up until the moment when that person shows me that they no longer deserve my respect. Showing "civility and courtesy" to someone who doesn't return the favor isn't "civility and courtesy", instead I'd call it groveling and ass-kissing. And I won't grovel to anyone or kiss anyone's ass.

Being disrespectful to anyone can have consequences.

Quite true. And it should have consequences for cops as well. And our society should not tolerate it when those people who are given the power and authority to enforce the law act in a disrespectful manner towards the citizens of this country.

A negative attitude automatically gives the advantage to whoever it is aimed at by changing the rules of engagement.

Having a "negative attitude" should not, and does not, give a cop the right to violate a citizens civil rights.

You are willingly handing them power over you by giving them an reason to become defensive/aggressive.

So if a law-abiding citizen displays a negative attitude towards a cop, that gives the cop the right to become "aggressive" towards that citizen? That very attitude is what I take issue with, and the point of my previous post.

I thought this was common sense but obviously not.

Sadly, it appears that it has become "common sense" in this country that you had better be very nice to cops, no matter how they treat you, because if they don't like your "attitude" they might violate your civil rights, even if you haven't committed any crime.

It seems to me that if an LEO can't handle the negative attitudes of the people they deal with that they should find another line of work. If a cop feels compelled to violate a persons civil rights simply because they don't like that persons attitude, that cop shouldn't be on the force. I've seen several videos of LEO's writing speeding tickets to drivers who unleashed torrents of profanity and verbal abuse towards the officers, and all the while the officers stayed calm, maintained their composure, handed the driver their ticket, and said "Have a nice day", all without becoming aggressive or violating the drivers civil rights. It's called being a professional.

 

[fatheadhill]

Killgar, just curious but how many times have you been a victim of a cop violating your rights solely because of your attitude? I've been a Deputy Sheriff for 3 years, and have probably been on hundreds if not thousands of calls with other Deputies and Officers and I have yet to see it. Now a negative, stand offish, or flat untruthful person could be taken as suspicious behavior and might warrant further investigation but that has to be taken as a small part of the equation and in no way warrants a violation of someone's rights or an arrest on its own and without evidence of a crime.

All this banter back and forth about what cops could do, or shouldn't do is a useless without personal experience to back it up. Cops, for the most part, are good people just like non-LEO's. I'm sure there are bad apples out there, but in my experience they're a very very small minority. YMMV, but I doubt it.

 

[bobec57]

Killgar, just curious but how many times have you been a victim of a cop violating your rights solely because of your attitude? I've been a Deputy Sheriff for 3 years, and have probably been on hundreds if not thousands of calls with other Deputies and Officers and I have yet to see it. Now a negative, stand offish, or flat untruthful person could be taken as suspicious behavior and might warrant further investigation but that has to be taken as a small part of the equation and in no way warrants a violation of someone's rights or an arrest on its own and without evidence of a crime.

All this banter back and forth about what cops could do, or shouldn't do is a useless without personal experience to back it up. Cops, for the most part, are good people just like non-LEO's. I'm sure there are bad apples out there, but in my experience they're a very very small minority. YMMV, but I doubt it.

Hit the nail on the head there...

 

[Allen R.]

See, that sort of thing is just disrespectful. Giving them a hard time will in turn give you a hard time. I have no desire to abandon my rights, but a person would have to be pretty thick between the ears prolonging a situation that can be wrapped up quickly. No all LEOs are the same, some are much nicer than others, sometimes they have a chip on their shoulder. In the end, I have no desire to be detained and go through the whole mess of getting removed from my vehicle forcefully, potentially thrown onto the pavement, tazed, cuffed, and taken to the station for resisting arrest. Rmember, it is their word against yours and they will usually win.

Agree 100%, When I have been stopped , it typically goes like this , Afternoon or What have you Sir, the reason I stopped you is .....followed by this, which I've heard everytime I've been stopped by LEOS , DO you have any weapons, guns , knives, hand grenades, rocket launchers etc. that I need to know about. I always keep my hands on the wheel when stopped and let the officer ask me for my I.D. I don't reach for anything until he asks for 2 reasons, 1. I have weapons in my car, and 2. I haft to remove my seat belt to get to my papers, so the officer might say I wasn't wearing my seatbelt, when in fact I just took it off to get my paperwork before he approached my vehicle(learned that one the hard way).

So he pulls me over, I've got both hands on the wheel and I roll my window down, he tells me why I'm being stopped , or I'll ask before presenting anything. After being told why I've been stopped and he asks, for license and insurance, I say Yes officer, my insurance is in my glove box, along with a handgun, which I have a pistol permit for, I also have a pocket knife on me and another in there with the handgun, and usually they will say ok and go to passenger side and open glove box, clear the weapon and put it on top of my car, and not even bother with the knife. Afterwards, I will give him my pistol permit, with my license. I have been questioned why I carry a firearm by an officer before, and I just replied, I support the 2nd amendment officer.

As far as the whole knife vs. tool argument goes,anything that can hurt the officer he's going to presume it's a weapon, however the officer will usually ask specifically if you have any weapons such as , guns ,knives, what have you , but either way even if he doesn't ask it's in your best interest to be upfront and honest, because when you aren't it looks like you have something to hide. If your knife is legal to own and carry in your state have no worries. As others have said don't be reaching, and don't argue, you can turn a 10-15 minute encounter into a whole lot more and it won't be in your favor.

Knowing your rights is good, but knowing how to tell the officer in a respectful manner you know your rights is better. If you are arrogant to the officer and say things like "no officer you can't ........I know my rights", expect to be gone over with a fine toothed comb. Me I just cooperate with the officers as I understand they have a job to do , even if they pulled me over for something I find ridiculous(had that happen a few times too) I find it is in MY best interest to just comply with the officer and not give him or her any problems, and be as respectful as I can. My main goal with having interaction with LEO's is to not get a fine, not get any of my things confiscated , and the most important not to be detained or put in jail, and if that means that I may not excercise my rights , then so be it again it's not my goal to argue the law or rights with an officer, it's my goal to get out of the interaction as quickly as possible...

 

[killgar]

Killgar, just curious but how many times have you been a victim of a cop violating your rights solely because of your attitude?

The vast majority of encounters I've had with LEO's have been quite positive, and I have shared those positive experiences several times on this forum. I have also had some very negative experiences with LEO's, but none were the result of my attitude. There are many injustices in this world that I have not personally experienced, but that doesn't mean I consider them to be acceptable. As a citizen of this country, and as a taxpayer who pays the salaries of my local LEO's, I'd say that I have every right to condemn any officer who intentionally violates a persons civil rights, for any reason. And I believe that such violations should never be tolerated by our society.

I've been a Deputy Sheriff for 3 years, and have probably been on hundreds if not thousands of calls with other Deputies and Officers and I have yet to see it.

I assume that you are one of the good ones. That being said, with all due respect, I don't think that the personal experience of one Deputy, who has been on the job for all of three years, can be representative of all law enforcement personnel, and the citizens who have interacted with them. There are many things that I haven't seen personally, but that doesn't mean that they don't happen.

Now a negative, stand offish, or flat untruthful person could be taken as suspicious behavior and might warrant further investigation but that has to be taken as a small part of the equation and in no way warrants a violation of someone's rights or an arrest on its own and without evidence of a crime.

I agree completely, and that is one of the points I have been making.

All this banter back and forth about what cops could do, or shouldn't do is a useless without personal experience to back it up.

Ones level of personal experience does not dictate their level of interest or the validity of their concern. For example- I've never been the victim of excessive force on the part of an LEO, but I ceretainly have strong feelings on the subject. And once again, as a tax paying citizen, I believe that I have every right to voice my feelings on that subject, or any other related subjects.

Cops, for the most part, are good people just like non-LEO's. I'm sure there are bad apples out there, but in my experience they're a very very small minority. YMMV, but I doubt it.

I agree completely. And I believe that if anyone reads the last few sentences of my first post (post #99, page 5) that they will see quite clearly that I am not "anti-cop". In fact, despite the negative experiences I have had with LEO's, I have defended LEO's on this forum, and in my personal life, on several occasions.

 

[Bigfattyt]

What are your feelings on talking to the police? And in the context of the OP what would you say if asked during a routine stop "do you have a weapon"?

In my original post I stated I would advise anouncing that you have a pocket knife.

I am one who encourages respect for officers.

I have had unfounded stops (officer told me I "looked like I was in a hurry", when my 4 cylinder old worn out honda never got above 15 mph in a 35 before his lights turned on). I assumed he was goign to pull my brother in law over, who did speed off. I had seen the officer behind me a few blocks back and was playing it cool.

I, did however, have rap music playing, my seat reclined, my hat pulled low. When the officer walked up to my window in the parking lot where I pulled into a spot, he paused, stammered and did a double take. Then muttered someting about failing to signal (which came after the lights and siren). The "you looked like you were in a hurry" came after he looked me up, and saw no history, no tickets, and that I was the registered owner of the vehicle.



I can tell you, police are just like other people. There are good, moral cops, and there are bad, thieving, dishonest cops. Most are some where in the middle, like normal people.

I will say, that there seems to have been a rash of "Brady" discovery material about whole departments where I am at. Entire departments canned, and we get discovery about them being fired for lying under oath, grand theft, stealing evidence, including automobiles, and drugs. Seizing and keeping items that are not evidence, or stolen. Etc, Etc, Etc.

It is a small minority, but disheartening, non the less.

It's like having a good car mechanic. If you have ever had an honest, reliable, car mechanic, you know how good that can feel.


I know officers like that. I would not hesitate to leave them in charge of my children, or ask them to watch my house etc etc.


Then you have officers who get caught making up reports and charges whole sale (this happened to a family member. That officer lied, signed the statement under oath, and was fired for lying under oath on more than one occasion. There was a back story there. It did not happen in a vacume.)




Again, be polite to officers. They have a tough job. They deal with people at their worst. People are always lying to them, trying to deceive and out smart them.


If an officer says "are you carying any weapons" my response would be "No weapons, but I have a pocket knife". If the knife is scary, I might just answer "a pocket knife in my right front pocket".

The last time I was stopped with a gun, the officer did not even give me a chance to present my CCW card. I had it in my hand, but he just took my license. Caem back and asked why I was driving the vehicle with tabs expired by 3 years. I had just purchased the vehicle a few minutes piror, and was headed to the mechanic to get it inspected for tabs. He did not care about the gun in my pocket, or the tabs. Just told me to go straight to the mechanic.

Same city, my mother in law had her registration renewal and was ticketed 100 yards from the DMV. She had the paperwork on the seat next to her, and was 1 day expired. Of course the judge dismissed it, but she had to take time and inconvenience to do so. The officer was rude, but, she was actually tecnically driving on expired tabs.



As to car searches, I can't tell you what to do, but I will say, I won't consent to a search of my vehicle without a search warrant.

I have never had a vehicle factory new. Always used. Never taken a drug dog to my newly purchased vehicle, or an expert to look for hidden compartments etc.

I have found all kinds of items in used vehicles that were definitely not mine!

My non consent woudl be based upon my knowlege that there really is no reason to search my vehicle, and if the officer articulates one, he is making it up. I have seen officers go balistic when refused consent to search a vehicle. I have seen officers lie on a search warrant application (under oath) to get a search warrant (I have also witnessed officers fired for the same).


I don't think that there is anythign wrong with exercising a constitutional right. Police ask, because it makes their job easier (and most people agree, thinking they won't search, then get caught with the illegal items that they knew were there, or maybe did not know about...) People will usually consent to a search, even when the car is loaded with drugs, stolen guns, etc.

Officers can get pretty bent out of shape when some one exercises their right to refuse a search, or to answer questions designed to garner an incriminating response. But it remains a right, as long as a few are willing to exercise it.


Dishonest answers can get you charged. Period. It is better to not answer a question, than give a false answer. I have seen many instances of charges where there really was no initial reason for criminal charges. One example, officer knows who knows your real name or your companions real name. You give a fase one to keep buddy from being taken to jail on a warrant, and it turns out he had no warrant. You go to jail for false statement. (one of countless examples).


Don't lie about who you are, or whether or not you are carying a pocket knife. That is a silly reason to get charged.


You don't have to answer questions about where you have been, who you were with, where you are going, what's in your trunk.

If you have somethign to be worried about, politely decline to answer those questions. You have to present ID if you are driving a vehicle (and insurance/registration etc).

You don't have to answer that you were just comeing from a drug buy..........



An interaction with police can go south if you get cute.............


The only way you really win a fight with officers if if some one records them kicking your butt for no reason............ Or going way beyond normal responses.



People who don't fear the power of a bad cop or prosecutor have never seen how much power they really have, I guess. Unless they walk arround being secrecetly video recorded..............

 

[VictorLouis]

Six years as a city cop in S. Florida in my youth. NOW, 20 years later, a conservative, law-abiding, gun-totin', knife afficianado.
I will apologize if this post seems to ramble a bit, as I am trying to get in much of what I can recall/respond too.

YES, I fully understand that the officer/s should be above-the-fray, courteous to a fault, without bias, calm-and-collected, and any other such catch-phrases you choose to add. Now, the reality is exactly what has has been pointed out. Courtesy and respect is expected from both parties, as BOTH are ordinary humans.

So, if you don't want the ride (or merely a citation or two), respectful and courteous compliance will go much farther for you in that regard, as common-sense should indicate. Even if the officer is being a pompous arse, a windbag, etc....controlling YOUR own frustration or anger WILL help prevent anything escalating.

Try to have the required THREE documents ready-to-go (PLUS Permit, if-applicable) , before you completely stop, or immediately before the officer approaches. I am pulling out my wallet with one hand, while steering with the other, as my license & permit are inside it. The Reg/Ins are in my visor. IF you are CCW, regardless of your state's permit system or not (Ak, Az, NH), inform the officer up-front, with your hands visible and such, "Officer, I am CCW behind my right hip." Then, and ask how the officer would like you to proceed. IF you have NOT YET removed your wallet from near your holster, you will very likely get a request to carefully hand them your gun.

Just because your state's CCW may be linked to DMV doesn't mean it's either instantaneous, or always correct. Better to let the officer know up-front, rather than later, and take extra issue with you over their discomfort, ouright fear, or bias against RKBA. Does that make sense, folks? I'm in full agreement with using the two-word reference 'pocket-knife', as has been referenced earlier when it comes to any form of a question about 'other weapons.

Pay close attenton to the posts from sirupatespecial and BigFattyT, as there's lot's of good stuff there. But, here's the bottom-line with the "I know my rights" response/approach to things.

You MAY beat the RAP, but you WON'T beat the RIDE!

IOW, if your demeanor and response is such that the officer/s find less than courteous or respectful, or antagonizing, or whatever...... you may very well expect them to spend MORE time with you than otherwise needed. That could mean a minor thing like getting aticket, when they were prepared to lecture and warn you, or extra tickets perhaps, for more than the one offense they intended to cite you for. All the way up to having to wait while they have their one-and-only drug-canine travel over to your stop 45mins from the other side of the city. Now, mind you, i am NOT talking about the heinous criminal behavior that a wee minority of cops engage in, like the cavity search nonsense in N.M. right now. I mean real, ordinary things that can come into play with little effort. Remember, also, that many so-called traffic offenses can and DO carry misdemeanor level charges for them for which you CAN BE ARRESTED and have your vehicle impounded.

NOW, I will tell you, never aquiesce to a voluntary search of you or your vehicle! You'd never know if the mechanic's meth fell out of his shirt pocket into your trunk when he mounted your new tire and replaced your spare. You don't know WHO your daughter drove around town with the other night when you loaned her the car. Her 'friend' could've left a joint or two under the seat when SHE got pulled over that night (& didn't tell you). Your angry wife might have put a flask of Jack under your seat, hoping you could be pulled-over and searched. Any numbe of such things occur ALL of the time.

Money and time is all it's going to cost you, if it doesn't cost your FREEDOM. Be careful.

 

[billygoat162]

Killgar, I'm not trying to challenge you, but I really am curious as to what you are suggesting. I don't think anyone here is saying that it's OK for an officer to violate someone's civil rights. They are just saying that the side of the road at 2am is not a good place to take a stance against that kind of thing if you actually want to accomplish anything. It seems like it would only escalate things in a situation you can't control.

On another note, being courteous and honest while never calling a pocket knife a weapon has worked well for me ("no, but I do have a pocket knife"). One time an officer's eyes lit up when I said I had a knife in my center console, but as soon as I started talking about legal length he did a complete palm-to-face and shook his head, like "oh god, not another one of these knife nuts," and changed the subject. I later realized the town I was in had stricter laws than I thought, and I was in the wrong, and the officer probably knew it, but he didn't care. We both told each other to have a good day, and away I went with a warning.

 

[billygoat162]

One more tip, I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but it doesn't hurt to put down both windows so the officer has a choice of where to approach you from. If there is a lot of traffic, it might not be safe to approach from the driver side. The dome light is always a good idea, as is stopping under a street lamp if you have the option.