Store Owners & Sellers Beware

BladeHQ

BladeHQ

Dealer / Materials Provider
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Oct 2, 2002
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If anyone has done (or is doing business) with a "Vlad Pavlov" of Israel prepare yourself for a loss. We just got over $5,000 of charge backs this past week. I repeat do not do business with this individual. Just a little heads-up for everyone (especially store owners).

This is his shipping info (in case he uses a different name):

Hazvi 67/14
Beersheva, Beersheva 21234
Israel

BTW- just so everyone knows- we verified all his info though our merchant account. The purchases that were charged back were made over the course of five months (the last being made about three weeks ago) so nothing seemed suspicious. It is my belief he has an acomplice here in the USA. Does anyone know of a fool proof methos to verify buyer info or are chargebacks just part of life?

-Cam

Edited to correct terrible spelling errors (minor erros were not corrected :cool: ).
 
Cam,

Thanks for posting this info. We received 2 orders from this guy about 1 week apart back in May. We flagged them because he used 2 different addresses for delivery and he was overseas.

We currently only accept international money orders when shipping overseas. We emaled him and informed him of this policy more than 4 months ago. . . we have not heard back from him.

In cases like this, the credit card companies have sided with the customer in every case we've seen.

Sadly, you have very little recourse at your disposal.

Good luck and thanks again for the warning,

Jerry Busse
 
This is terrible.

Are you guys willing to make complaints to the Israel Police fraud unit? This may go nowhere (depends on amounts, and a number of other details) and may involve some paperwork. But if the credit card companies aren't helping, this needs to be persued in via the police. If I can help to put you in touch with the authorities by finding phone numbers, let me know. You may also consider calling the Israeli consulate.

I will probably be visiting Israel over the course of the winter. If you wish, I can certainly help with things from over there.

best of luck.
 
What is the basis of the chargeback? Is the cardholder claiming he has not recieved his material, or is the cardholder claiming he never ordered? Orders over a five month period, with approx. 4 billing cycles and the cardholder is now charging back everything from the first order? There is something that doesn't make sense here. We pay thousands a month in chargebacks in our business, but this is making no sense to me. Can you give some details of this and your communication with your card processor? I have never seen one like this before.
 
Are you guys willing to make complaints to the Israel Police fraud unit?
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I would be- but I doubt it would do much good.

Is the cardholder claiming he has not recieved his material, or is the cardholder claiming he never ordered?
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That's the most frustrating part- the chargeback summary came and basically it has the amounts and transaction dates. It simply says the amounts are being desputed as "fraud." because there is "no signature." No other reason is given.

Orders over a five month period, with approx. 4 billing cycles and the cardholder is now charging back everything from the first order?
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Correct. I was under the (mistaken) impression that card holders have 90 days to dispute a charge.

Can you give some details of this and your communication with your card processor?
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The card issuer is Citibank (this is who we talked to- our card processor is Card Service Int., but they simply refered us to Citibank). When the chargeback notices came I called them to find out how chargebacks starting five months ago could be filed now. The reponse was simply that there was no "magic limit." I asked when the transactions were disputed and was told that was information that could not be relased to me (?). I asked who could release it and was told I would need permission from the card holder. I asked If I could have the card holder information so I could contact them. "No." I asked if they would get in contact with the card holder for me. "No." I asked if there was any recourse or anything I could do. "No."

Here's why I'm screwed: When I say I verified the purchaser's info I mean this: The billing address did did not match the address is Card Service's data base (I got the "N" not the "Y" we all long for). I called them. I was put on hold. I was then told that the purchase was authorized and I could go ahead with it (which was my basis for assuming that there is, perhaps, a US accomplice). In short- I sent the merchandise to the shipping address so I can't prove that it was delivered to the billing address (because it was not). In any event, maybe there's an alternate set of rules that apply for International purchases.

Anyway- my post was mostly just a warning. I've had chargebacks before (never this large) but this one has proved the most frustrating to me. I guess the only real solution is simply to never ship to anywhere besides a verified billing address. Otherwise I guess chargebacks will be a part of life. I just hate how it's the business that gets screwed in the deal.

-Cam
 
We have several disputes ongoing at this time. We have adopted a policy that ALL NEW international customers MUST use Western Union to wire the money to us BEFORE we ship. Has been reasonably well received by our new international customers.
Thanks for the heads up on this fellow. I will check for him at the store in the AM.
 
I will try to contact the Israel police fraud unit to see what can be done. Israel does not particularly need dishonest folks running around free over there, any more than we do here.

I will also get in touch with a friend in the Israel Customs service, if you wish. Many items have customs charges, and there is at least an 18% VAT to be paid. Since you probably sent this package insured, fees should have been paid before this mook picked up the package. Is this correct?

This is bad for everyone. I have lived outside the CONUS, and may move back. I would like to be able to keep buying knives from New Graham, 1SKS, and all the other places I throw my money away at :D without an added hassle. This kind of thing forces dealers to raise prices.
 
I don't know the ins and outs of shipping internationally, but I do know that if you want to help protect yourself from such disputes (where it's a scam rather than a legit fraud claim) on credit card orders, especially when shipping overseas, is to ship only to the billing address verified by the issuer and to insist upon signature confirmation. It won't offer you 100% protection, but can be safer than dealing with ship to addresses. You may wish to have a customer establish a good order/payment history before letting them use a ship to. At my company, we've seen customers dipsute orders that we and they know are legit by claiming it was fraud just on the basis of it going to an alternate address. We've pled our case that the customer requested and authorized shipment to that address, but it can fall on deaf ears. People just decide they don't want to pay for the merch and everyone loses. As someone else said, merchants may have to raise their prices, credit cards may increase their rates, etc. It all adds up to substantial amounts.
 
VidKnight,

Everyone here has a lot of good info., of course, at this point the past cannot be changed. The one and only way to win on a chargeback (we use Cardservices, Int. also....they are a big problem themselves) is to have a Fed. Ex. style delivery with signature of adult. The only problem with this is the cardholder can still claim that it is not their name on the delivery. At that point, Fed. Ex. investigates and pays on their insurance if they cannot prove who actually received the item. Fed. Ex. has a built in $100 of insurance and declared value for any additional. I am not trying to push Fed. Ex., but in my experience, they are the only ones who actually investigate what happened and eventually do pay the claim. If you have the signature of the cardholder, it becomes a signature verification issue and Fed. Ex. takes care of that too. It is very difficult and time consuming to win on one of these....and scumbags internationally are aware of this.

It certainly seems that in your particular case, the credit card company of the purchaser aided and abetted his "crime". Had you known earlier (after the first billing cycle), that there was a dispute/fraud claim, you certainly would not have shipped more product. You were not given this opportunity. I think this is a salient legal issue and you might have some recourse if you can get an attorney to write a letter for you. Cardservices Int. will knuckle under at some point if they believe the whole thing is going to blow up into a major incident. They do have some control over these type of issues and a supervisor in customer service has to get involved. If not, the final decision will come from M/C/Visa/Amex international. It can be disputed (from your end) right up to the international arm of the card issuer brand. We have had some luck at that level.

From an investigative standpoint, Shaldag has a very interesting idea. When the POS picked up (or had delivered)....his parcel.....who paid the duties? I have no experience with Israel, but I think we tried this once...we were not successful because the country involved refused to divulge this info. Maybe in Israel with the police involved you would have a different result.

In any case, thanks for your "heads up". Good luck in your quest with CSI......they can be characters without compare! :thumbdn:
 
It certainly seems that in your particular case, the credit card company of the purchaser aided and abetted his "crime". Had you known earlier (after the first billing cycle), that there was a dispute/fraud claim, you certainly would not have shipped more product
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Yes, exactly. That's the angle I'm going to take on this one. Our current plans are to head to small claims court (assuming this particular division of Citibank does business in Utah thus providing long arm juristiction). I can file a claim up to $5,000 and my hope is simply that Citibank won't bother to send a defense representative, allowing me to win by default (works for speeding tickets). We shall see.

Anyway- thanks for the feedback everyone. It's appreciated.

I will also get in touch with a friend in the Israel Customs service, if you wish.
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Let me see how things pan out this coming week and if they don't work out I will definatly be in contact with you. I appreciate your generous offer of assistance.

-Cam

Whoops- alsmost forgot:

Since you probably sent this package insured, fees should have been paid before this mook picked up the package. Is this correct?
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It wasn't insured (my express packages have never been lost yet- knock on wood).

When the POS picked up (or had delivered)....his parcel.....who paid the duties?
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He would have paid the customs duties- I'm guessing the idea is that this leaves a paper trail? Well, like I said, if small claims court can't help me (or some letters directed at Card Service and the issuing bank) we'll go the "tell the police route." Thanks again,

-Cam
 
This guy's scum!!! WOW, if I'd lost almost $5000. to someone I'd probably get on plane to Israel with a few large friends. If nothing happens it's just a vacation. Good luck getting your money back. I hope you do. This just really sucks....R :mad:
 
Since these transactions are already in the system you may have limited recourse. I think you should report him to citibank/visa/mastercard as a cardholder using the card for fraud. I'm sure each of these entites has a fraud unit. And using their card for fraudulent purposes does not make them look good.
My 3cents US.
Chris
 
Having been in retail for many years, on credit card orders I will only agree to ship to the address that the credit card issuer has on file for the card holder. If the card holder wants the shipment to go to another address I tell him/her to contact the card issuer and have that address added to his/her file.

As far as small claims goes, you will likely not have much luck there. From what I understand, the time limit for a chargeback is 181 days. All of these chargebacks happened in under that time period. It sounds like the person that did this knows the system pretty well.
 
If this mook lives in Israel, it will be difficult to do much against him in the US. If the amount stolen counts as a felony in your state (I don't know much about this kind of stuff) amybe he can be flagged as a felon next time he tries to enter the US (I don't particularly like all of this computerization of entry/exit but it does have its uses).

It is still possible that the Israeli courts could do something about this. They are traditionally overworked, and may not care. On the other hand, we could get lucky. In any event, I will not do anything until asked by those injured.

Since he has tried this at least twice, I hope that this thread will remain right up top.
 
Sorry about the bad hit. It takes a lot of sales to earn enough gross profit to make up $5000. Understand that this might not necessarily be fraud. It may be theft. Anyone can do a chargeback on a purchase for which they haven't signed their name. They can do it any time within the first six months after the purchase with most banks. Consumers always win chargeback disputes. Always. There isn't a thing you can do other than sue the fellow but suing him in Israel isn't very practical.

My advice is to do what I did. I just stopped shipping internationally back in 1998. I had more chargebacks back then than I had gross profit on the sales. I got a significant raise in profitability by simply cutting out the international business. It reduced the workload as well.

Americans engage in this kind of theft as well but to a tiny degree compared to the rest of the world. Merchants have no chance in a dispute. The only thing you can do is hope that you don't get chargebacks. Nothing will stop all of them but we have them down to about $2000 per month which is manageable. It used to be much worse. Good luck.
 
boxer93 said:
Since these transactions are already in the system you may have limited recourse. I think you should report him to citibank/visa/mastercard as a cardholder using the card for fraud. I'm sure each of these entites has a fraud unit. And using their card for fraudulent purposes does not make them look good.
My 3cents US.
Chris
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Yes they have fraud units but they don't care about mail order or on-line chargebacks because the banks don't have to pay for them. The merchants who made the sales have to pay for them. Take it from a veteran of many years of chargebacks, the merchant has two choices. The first is to shake it off and make sure your security is as good as it can be so it happens less in the future. The other is to sue the miscreant. I've done a couple of lawsuits. I won them both. In one case, though, I didn't get any money because the judge remanded him to the county jail to stand trial for credit card fraud. I felt better about that than the money. It is the only time I know of that someone was actually prosecuted for credit card fraud. It is the fastest growing crime in America because it is the easiest to get away with. Bank robbers get caught. Credit card frauds don't. It's not good.
 
I ****ing hate *******s like this, it gives us Int'l buyers a dirty reputation and makes our shopping process a PITA! :mad:
 
Anyone heard of a Piotr Kadlcik from Isarel? I just got a inquiry if I accept Western Union transfers and will ship to a NYC address, I haven't delt with W.U. transfers, anyone know anything about them? Sounds a little funny.
 
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