strider/ buck strider

[Simple Man]

Oops, nevermind.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

When people buy a 400-500 dollar knife as a hard-use user...

How many of the users have complained about locks on any knives? I have seen people defend Striders by complaining that spine whacks on hard targets are abusive, Mick Strider himself posted this point of view on Bladeforums, similar issues for heavy prying and torquing, how much of this is actually done with the blades to such an extent it would actually illustrate a problem if it existed, check the reviews?

If you have a knife which just engages at one point on the front that lock will compress easily, for reasons noted in the above, I have seen this first hand, the pressure is simply too high, and the arguement about vertical rock ignores horizontal play and torques, it is mainly focused on a cosmetic issue not actual security, blades can actually have a lot of vertical play and be more secure than another knife which is rock solid vertically.

-Cliff

 

[Hair]

How many of the users have complained about locks on any knives? I have seen people defend Striders by complaining that spine whacks on hard targets are abusive, Mick Strider himself posted this point of view on Bladeforums, similar issues for heavy prying and torquing, how much of this is actually done with the blades to such an extent it would actually illustrate a problem if it existed, check the reviews?

If you have a knife which just engages at one point on the front that lock will compress easily, for reasons noted in the above, I have seen this first hand, the pressure is simply too high, and the arguement about vertical rock ignores horizontal play and torques, it is mainly focused on a cosmetic issue not actual security, blades can actually have a lot of vertical play and be more secure than another knife which is rock solid vertically.

-Cliff

I don't mean this as an insult, but I have a hard time understanding your point. I am not a great writer myself, but your sentences just run-on and combine too many thoughts.

I will say this, though, as I think it answers you:

My SMF passes a hard spinewack test, and many people do complain about their knife having lock problems. Knife buyers are not afriad to complain when their knife has a lock problem, especially when the knife is marketed as heavy-duty. And yet, Strider knives have very few complaints about actual lock problems (versus theoretical ones). I have seen a grand total of zero.

 

[STR]

And yet, Strider knives have very few complaints about actual lock problems (versus theoretical ones). I have seen a grand total of zero.

I have seen complaints posted both here and on other forums. Ironically these are sometimes advertised quite boldly as if to sing the praises of the knife in question signifying its 'heavy duty uses' and the need for warranty.

On the other side of the coin though the lack of frequent public complaints may well be for one simple reason. The last time someone voiced a concern to Mick Strider here for example he was told to "lick his genitalia" and basically dealt with by vulgarity and a foul mouth about it instead of a mature and gentleman like fashion without all the emotion.

Most people don't want to get into the middle of that kind of conflict publically so it is my guess they would complain or voice concerns on a private venue.

STR

 

[ginshun]

If my Strider ever has a lock problem, everyone here and Mick Strider will hear about it. I can promise you that.

For 4 bills, that lock better hold up to pretty much anything, and if it doesn't I sure as hell won't be shy about it.

 

[Hair]

I doubt that is a motivation. At least it wouldn't be for me.

Honestly, though, can you provide me links to examples of Strider locks failing? I am interested in reading them just for the sake of personal knife-education.

 

[STR]

I'm not talking about just lock problems. And I'm not saying that just because they don't go public that the Strider folks wouldn't hear about it. We actually get to see a very small segment of the volume of warranty work from any maker. Most users are not knuts like us to where they mess with the forums.

As for the links. I would have to say," look them up yourself". Just search out the Strider Warranty or some other such thing because that is where you'll find them. They start out negative and turn positive because of the way they cover the knives. They do have great service and cover what they make. How else would we know that unless the warranty was used and then written about by an owner?

STR

 

[Hair]

We do see only a portion of problems and warrenty work, but most Strider owners are knife knuts, so if Strider lock problems were anything other than extremely rare, I'd expect to hear about it. I'd consider Buck Strider lock problems to be rare, and yet I hear about them very often.

When I asked for the links I just assumed they were on another forum. Didn't mean to make it seem like I don't know how to search. Edit: Couldn't find a thing. Only Buck/Strider lock problems.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

And yet, Strider knives have very few complaints about actual lock problems (versus theoretical ones). I have seen a grand total of zero.

How many users of the knives, who don't complain about them, have been active in complaining about the locks on their other knives? Without such a reference all you can say is that the locks are the equal of the lowest end also used without complaint by the same people.

Pick any custom maker and see how many complaints you hear about the locks on their knives. It is really small, if any exist. Now ask Joe Talmadge and Steve Harvey if they have used knives from the makers and see what happens. You get two very different sets of statistics.

A spine whack generally isn't enough to compact a lock face because the inertia of the blade is far too small to produce enough energy on an impact, even with really low end blades. Spine whacks just test security and check to see if the lock will slip and/or mildly check wear.

-Cliff

 

[stjames]

How many users of the knives, who don't complain about them, have been active in complaining about the locks on their other knives? Without such a reference all you can say is that the locks are the equal of the lowest end also used without complaint by the same people. -Cliff

Who did who with a whatzit?

 

[Hair]

I think there are people that use Striders, don't complain about them, and do complain about other knives. I think there are a lot of them actually.

Do you have links to reviews done by yourself, Joe, or Steve that test a Strider lock to failure?

You seem to think that I am saying the lack of reported Strider lock failures is proof that they never fail. I believe that any lock can fail and am sure there are people that have had Strider locks fail. I am just asking you to show me. I don't care about theories as to which lock should be better and which lock should suck. Strider locks have a great reputation. I can't get mine to fail. I would like some sort of proof that they are more probamatic than other trusted locks (such as the Sebenza) before I start trusting them less than those other locks.

Don't waste yout time telling me that lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. I understand this well. But I will no believe something without cause.

A spine wack isn't an atom bomb, and it isn't an end-all test, but I don't need to hit my knife with a hand grenade to feel the lock is secure or not. Any lock can be defeated, it's just a matter of how much it takes. A spine wack, IMO, is a good way to show that a lock is solid for everyday use, at the least. I don't understand your point in saying that a spine wack doesn't do enough to defeat a given lock. If your test broke every lock, what would be the point?

Please don't see me as a biased Strider fan trying to defend his brand. I only have 1 Strider, which I got last Saturday. I noticed how only the front part of the lock contacts the tang. I want to know whether this is going to be a problem or not. I see two sides: People that prefer more contact, a la Chris Reeve. And the other camp (such as Strider and Emerson and others) that feel the lock on my SMF is the way it is supposed to be.

It would be easy for you to tell me that, yes, my SMF will be problamatic and that it will wear faster and develop play. But that would be based on theory. Are there really accounts of Striders getting blade play sooner than Sebenzas? Is fast wear a hallmark of Striders? Because I have not known this to be part of their reputation.

There are knives made using both methods with good locks, and bad locks. Good reps, and bad reps.

All I can really judge is the knife in my hand. It seems secure, and I cannot spine wack it into failure.

I am interesting in knowing if either method is better than the other by a decent margain, or if they are similar enough (when done right) that the difference is mainly cosemetic. So far I just see theories on both sides and no hard data. As it stands, I trust both methods. I trust my Sebenza, and I trust my SMF. It's really just a matter, now, of learning which method is better, if either is actually noticably better than the other. I believe if Strider lock problems were so common that I should be fearful, that I would have heard about it. I haven't- and that is my point about their rep.

 

[Blop]

It would be easy for you to tell me that, yes, my SMF will be problamatic and that it will wear faster and develop play. But that would be based on theory. Are there really accounts of Striders getting blade play sooner than Sebenzas? Is fast wear a hallmark of Striders? Because I have not known this to be part of their reputation.

The trouble is, that many owners are not users but do represent a good part of the Strider forumites. So, the number of answers to that question won´t be a valid information.

Proof, evidence? I just have a look at the sources and their gallery. The mayority of knifes are safe queens.

If i were you, i would safe the information here and would go on for own informations. Time and use will tell, if the theory is true or not. I would only fear, that if the theory seems to be proofed, i would calm that down myself by saying, "that should be normal..".

If your Strider is an edc, you will find out over the next year or two, who was right. Keep us updated!

 

[Hair]

At this point it looks like my SMF will be my main EDC. But I would like to hear from someone who has carried an SMF since it came out, or an SNG.

 

[rover]

I've owned 6 Strider folders. All of them were users. All had perfect lockup. None of their locks ever failed on me.

I don't have a degree in physics and I don't know what torque has to do with knives. I do know that Strider makes a damn good knife.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Do you have links to reviews done by yourself, Joe, or Steve that test a Strider lock to failure?

I used a Buck/Strider, it was one of the worst liner locks I have seen, Mick Strider noted that the behavior was to be expected in regard to torque failure. I asked him specifically if the Striders were any better and could they meet or surpass the work done on the Spyderco Chinook. He declined to answer.

Now forget about Strider, forget about knives. You go out and buy VCR X, it has problems if you leave it on too long, you return it, the guy tells you yeah it is a problem with model X. A few weeks later you hear that there is a new version of model X, more expensive but this one is made in US, the other ones were Taiwan and basically rips.

You go into the store and ask if the new model X has the same problem. The guy refuses to answer and either changes the subject or ignores you and deals with other customers. You then see another store with another brand, Y, and you ask them the same question. They say no, that isn't a problem with ours and we guarantee it. Which one would most reasonable people buy.

You then ask the people who use the newer model X, do they have a problem , they all say no. You then further ask them did they have problems with the one made in Taiwan which had a known issue the company admitted, they say no to that as well. What does this tell you about the fact they had no problems with the newer model? This is basic logic.

But I will no believe something without cause.

Consider this fully - it works both ways.

A spine wack isn't an atom bomb, and it isn't an end-all test, but I don't need to hit my knife with a hand grenade to feel the lock is secure or not.

The next logical step up with be batoning which has been openly advocated by some such as Doug Ritter on his RSK. Now do you really want to argue that the huge Striders are "abused" by work which is easily handled by the zytel and much slimmer RSK's? Strider promotes their knives for military and combat use, take your knife and use it as Mick Strider has promoted which includes such work as violent jackhammer stabs into moving hard targets. Now consider the impact of all your body weight torquing and impacting on the lock and compare this to a spine whack.

I don't understand your point in saying that a spine wack doesn't do enough to defeat a given lock.

It doesn't test strength at all, it is a check on security, Joe Talmadge has wrote on length on the subject, they are two very different matters.

It would be easy for you to tell me that, yes, my SMF will be problamatic and that it will wear faster and develop play. But that would be based on theory.

The ironic thing here is that the design proposal that Strider has explaining the lock is based on theory, they have no hard data at all to support their idea, yet you don't question this at all or demand anything from them, however when the idea of pressure is brought up you dismiss this as "just" theory.

I have seen knives with small amounts of engagement both crush and fracture due to the pressure and shear forces which result. The reason that you don't see reviews by guys like Joe and Steve on liners and integrals is that they have moved past them due to frequent problems, they have noted this in detail in the past.

It is actually ironic that their lack of critism is somehow taken as a positive, if anything it is the reverse.

-Cliff

 

[jokrswylde]

If strider makes his liner locks and integrals in the same manner (i have no idea), it would make sense that they should exhinit similar characteristics.

Take a look at the reviews from Messer Magazine that compared a liner lock Strider (which many people claim to be a weak/untrustworthy lock) and a lockback Extrema Ratio (which many people feel are FAR more secure than a linerlock). Granted, torque was not measured, but lateral loading, vertical loading, front-to-back loading, etc were all measured using a hydraulic press and the weak linerlock was given higher marks in the end.

If Mick Strider can make a puny linerlock that is as strong/stronger than a beefy lockback, wouldn't it make sense to assume that his integrals would be even more secure locks, as I always thought that was the advantage of integrals over linerlocks?

 

[DaveH]

wouldn't it make sense to assume that his integrals would be even more secure locks

Not really, the whole point of this is the fit of the lock.

If anyone thinks there's been a lack of posts about strider locks needs to do a search.

 

[jokrswylde]

Fit of the lock-exactly. If he has the same engineering philosophy for liner locks as he does for frame-locks (again, I do not own a liner lock model so I don't know) wouldn't you agree that the Messer Magazine test demonstrates that his design/fit produces a pretty strong lock?

 

[STR]

It isn't a very valid test if you only test it in all the ways that it is strong and then ignore the areas where it will flat out fail.

All those great strengths are null and void by the one inherant weakness found in all liner and integral locks which has been discussed so much here it isn't hardly worth going into. With the differences in the philosophy out there as to how to do one right as well as the variance in degree of angle and contact areas there is no doubt in my mind that these style locks are the most likely to cause the user sudden and surprising failure. It doesn't mean they are bad just that out of all being made they are the ones to really watch out for more so than the others.

I make liner and frame locks, and love them but the truth is the truth.

STR

 

[jokrswylde]

It isn't a very valid test if you only test it in all the ways that it is strong and then ignore the areas where it will flat out fail.

All those great strengths are null and void by the one inherant weakness found in all liner and integral locks which has been discussed so much here it isn't hardly worth going into. With the differences in the philosophy out there as to how to do one right as well as the variance in degree of angle and contact areas there is no doubt in my mind that these style locks are the most likely to cause the user sudden and surprising failure. It doesn't mean they are bad just that out of all being made they are the ones to really watch out for more so than the others.

I make liner and frame locks, and love them but the truth is the truth.

STR

-emphasis mine

I certainly respect your opinion on this lock type, and knowing that you believe all locks of this types will fail under certain forces, it makes more sense to me. I thought you were arguing that strider's design specifically meant certain failure.:thumbup: