Strider Knives.

jokrswylde said:
I did beat around the bush a bit and gave a few examples....but I think I answered the million dollar question to the best of MY meager ability in the last two sentences of my original post.

I would never call you a cheapskate for buying a $180 dollar manix...I have one myself. However, afford me the same courtesy by not questioning my "spending habits" when I add a Strider or a Sebbie to the collection.

As I implied earlier, there are likely many Opinel owners out there who laugh and are amazed that you would spend 180 bucks on a manix that will not cut as clean as their little carbon and wood knife.

We could go in this circle all day. Is a strider worth the money when you can get a manix for cheaper? Is a manix worth the money when you can get a sak far cheaper? Is a Sak worth the money when you can get an Opinel far cheaper? Is an Opinel worth the money when you can knap a piece of flint for free?

It's all relative. Try my method. I have three factors that determine if I buy a knife: 1). If I like it, 2)If I can afford it, 3) If my wife will let me. ;)

If all three of these factors are a go, then the knife is mine, regardless of price, maker, etc. . I could care less how much a knife costs. If it makes me happy and I like it and can afford it, why should it bother anyone else?
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Jokr - I'm not one for name calling unless someone else starts it and I still didn't do any name calling.

I can give you some very good technical reasons why some knives cost more than others including many of those you listed. However I can't with the Strider which is what disturbs me. What am I missing?

Of course you can buy whatever you want and I will always defend your right to make decisions for your own purposes. It is still a free country. But, when in a knife forum, discussions occur about various brands of knife I don't feel it is out of place to make comparisons between different brands or models as long as it is done in a good spirited friendly way.

Here is a good example of a comparison of various knives-

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409120

As I have frequently said, I think the Strider is a great knife, and the folks that make it are super people. However I have not been convinced in my own mind that I can't get as good or a better knife for a much lower price. But that's just me. That's why I'm curious to know what other educated and experienced knife users are seeing in these knives that I obviously am not. I would like to think I have some little knowledge about knives and am not a big dummy!

Is that being out of line? If so I apologize.

I'm still scratching my head about Cliffs comments about having to resharpen the knife to get it to perform to its full potential.

It is funny to hear that so many folks are being banned by USN for voicing their opinions. Never realized their members were that insecure.
 
I picked up a CRK DVD at blade show. I never thought it was easy to make a sebenza, but I will say even I was suprised at how many steps it takes, including hand work and testing each piece. The results of which I have even greater respect for what you get for the money. I'll assume strider goes through similar steps ( except for the inspection steps ;) )

Besdies, don't forget a significant portion of a knifes price has nothing to do with the knife, but goes to the retailer as profit.
 
I figured for the price, their knives would come with instructions on car jacking and name changing...or maybe a P226 if you buy a Mick custom job.
 
Ghost Soldier said:
I figured for the price, their knives would come with instructions on car jacking and name changing...or maybe a P226 if you buy a Mick custom job.
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You may not agree with what he did, and I don't think anybody does, but he did pay for it so why don't you cut him a little slack. I believe people can change and Mick seems to have made pretty good with the rest of his life. As long as he stays out of the customer complaint department anyway.:)
 
[demand]

DGG said:
What am I missing?
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Strider made a reputation on extreme demonstrations at shows by stabbing their knives into the concrete floor and chopping into steel table legs. This along with the very aggressive promotion of being designed, made and used by "operators" had them become very much in demand in a very short period of time. Mick was also extremely aggressive about the fact they were WAR knives and similar specific "tactical" promotion such as details about ice pick stabing to the face and other graphic details of use such as the rectum being a point of attack. You can see this readily if you scan through the archives here on Bladeforums as they once ran a sub-forum. It is as simple as price follows demand.

I'm still scratching my head about Cliffs comments about having to resharpen the knife to get it to perform to its full potential.
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In general there is a large variance in sharpness among the manufacturers and even custom makers. Some of this is just due to the fact that there isn't a consistent quantitative measurement of sharpness commonly used. A lot is also due to misinformation about the abilities of sharp edges as many believe that it weakens a heavy use knife to make it very sharp or that you can't get shaving ability with a coarse edge.

In general however any experienced user will eventually end up reprofiling almost every blade, outside of a true custom, because it isn't realistic to expect that a production blade is going to exactly match your skill/strength. My Ratweiler for example has its edge personally regound exactly for me, however it would not be what I would run for a knife for my brother.

The other thing of course is that truely impressive initial edge only lasts until the knife is used and is the course of the lifetime of a knife of how much real value is the fact that there was one less sharpening? I don't think you should ignore initial sharpness, but I don't think it should dominate any comparison either. Strider would also likely resharpen to a lower angle on demand if you were really uncomfortable doing it yourself.

-Cliff
 
graphic details of use such as the rectum being a point of attack
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:eek: This must have been before my time. Why is Mick leaking national security secrets? Now all the Al Qaeda folks are going to armour their rectums.:grumpy:
 
DGG said:
Anyone who sells cheese with holes in it is not to be trusted, IMHO. You are just buying lots of air that doesn't toast in the toaster, IMHO.
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And what about those who sell blades with a big hole? (i can't remember the name).

dantzk.
 
The fact still remains that. Strider produces a well made knife that can be used hard and still function. Yes, they are very expensive. I think an SNG/AR and its varients should cost $250.00, but people are paying the $400.00, so the price won't go anywhere. As far as being used by military? Yeah I used them for a few years, but other than on the forums I have never encountered another troop who carries them, and only found a few that even heard of them. THAT IS A STRONG FACT. Does that mean that operators/spec ops don't use them? How the hell do I know. I am an AF Cop which is like regular infantry and MP all mixed into one MOS. I have engaged in combat exercises in Japan, Korea and the US. I have been in real combat ops in the Middle East. I have met many other soldiers from the US and other allied counrtries to include special forces. I was stationed with operators on the base I was at in the desert, because it was a Special Operations base. None of the guys I met had a Strider knife or at least they didn't carry them when I was around them. So the the truth is, or has to be, that some guys made a product that they gave/sold to some friends of thiers in the Spec Ops community. They then sell some to troops on the merrits of those original sales. The word spreads at shows and internet forums and all of a sudden... You have to have one. The tiger stripped gewel of the spec ops community.:jerkit: Yeah they are nice. Yeah they perform as advertized. Yeah, I am sure some Spec Ops guys somewhere have and or carry them. Yeah I carried them for a long while. I have just found other knives worth having for that price range. I carry a bad ass knife from a bad ass maker who makes knives that can survive the rigors of..... Whatever. It just isn't a Strider. It cost just a little bit more, but it is a custom. That and I didn't have to send it back to have it tweaked right after I bought it.
 
Cliff that thread was just F&$KING stupid in my opinion. Not that you linked it, but that fact that he said that. I can just see him grinding his teeth as he types that.
 
DGG said:
BH - I'm so sorry to offend you with questions about quality knife prices and quality. Obviously you can buy anything you want as long as you have the money. Please forgive me for upsetting you.

Judging from your comments you are a "spend thrift" (if we want to degrade ourselves by name calling).

I don't think spending $180 for a Spyderco Manix or $140 for a Benchmade Ritter Griptilian is being "cheap" ,but then maybe I don't make as much as you do. Nobody in this discussion said anything about buying a junky knife (a POS as you describe them).

What is being discussed is the fact that there are knives that are far less expensive than a Strider that cut much better in knife reviews listed on reputable knife forums.

Maybe these other knives are not as good a screwdriver, crowbar, or hammer as the Strider folder but they are great knives for a lower price, IMHO.

What I'm trying to figure out is why anyone would pay that much when they can get as good or better a knife for a much lower price. That's not being cheap, that's being good with you spending habits. You never addressed that issue. Please explain why the Strider knife commands such a premium?
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I'm neither upset or offended. As I did yesterday, I type this with a smile on my face :). A lot of the people posting here have no idea what they're talking about. People are judging knives and poeple having no knowledge about either one. I make a good living, but I have a family to support, so I don't have unlimited fun money to spend on knives. I do however buy items that I feel are the best quality I can afford. I am not a hardcore warrior and don't pretend to be. I have owned hundreds of knives in my life, I've settled on my $400 Strider SnG. I've used it every day for the last 2 years, a lot of the time for things a knife shouldn't be used for. It's served it's intended purpose. I didn't buy it because it has any "hype" I bought it because I wanted to, and am glad I did. We're on a knife forum so you're going to get some people fired up. Go to a motorcycle forum, or some other completely non knife related forum, most people won't know what a Strider is, and they'll think you're nuts for spending $100 on a knife let alone $400 or more. What's silly to me is that it seem the reason for posting stuff like this is more to get people all worked up rather than get a real answer. You can get knives in any price range. The majority of people on this forum will spend a considerable amt. more on a knife than an "average Joe". As far as people attacking one of the owners of Strider, that's just crossing the line. I'm not going to say any more on that, except it just goes to show that every forum have their Toilets on them, or rather a sack of what goes in one.

Buy a knife that you like and are comfortable spending the money on, but my comments about you being cheap come from the few other posts of yours that read something like "for that kind of money I could buy 2 of these, or this and that" Buy quality, not quantity. These forums are about knives, if you want to talk about I could buy a .40 SW for that kind of cash, you'll get a better reception at a gun forum.
 
And what about those who sell blades with a big hole? (i can't remember the name).
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Ssssss... I can't think of it either. But all the 1 hand opener attachments are weakpoints. Recently, there was a picture of a Grip that broke through the hole drilled for the thumbstud. I suppose the best may be to weld a thumb disk on there. Also +1 for the flippers.

Mick was one of the few knife makers who would be so graphic about killing people with knives which separated him rather strongly as "keeping it real".
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As for "keeping it real," I think it's a fars somewhere between untasteful and fanatical.
 
I have a Strider SNG. It's a great knife. A little pricey perhaps, but an excellent design.
 
Irregardless of agreement with his opinion and there is much conflict over what he said, you have to give Mick credit for speaking publically pretty much the same as he did privately. While many people do tear into him for the sack licking comments, there is this and worse said in private behind people's back and is that really better - ignoring business perspective of course.

If Mick thought you were a nob he said to you that you were a nob, he didn't go around spreading rumors/lies in email. Some of the things I have heard in such conversations are way more offensive than anything Mick ever said. People making up stories about people going out of business, that custom knives are not actually custom but mass produced and then makers just stamp their names on them, steels not really being the steels they say they are, etc. .

Of course none of this would ever be said in public because they are not willing to be responsible for their words. Mick would and that very rare, especially considering how non-PC his comments get. A lot of "tactical" knife makers constantly imply their knives are used for killing people, it is the main defence when people critize them for not actually working well as cutting/utility tools. At least Mick says it openly.

I would like to have seen him debate his knife fighting perspective, especially in regards to the comments on martial arts with other guys in the field who have radically different perspectives.

-Cliff
 
Yeah, but I wonder how many of these maker's knives have actually been used in killing someone. Probably 1% if that. Cliff, you should take a knife and put an edge on it that is perfet for severing limbs, and then add that you will put this type of edge on other people's knives for a small fee. You would be able to retire in a year. You will be flooded by mini morons who have to have this edge on thier knives.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It was basically stab the face/throat as they are not as well protected as the chest and then stab the rectum when they turn to you and curl up in a fetal position. Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1574555&postcount=25

Mick was one of the few knife makers who would be so graphic about killing people with knives which separated him rather strongly as "keeping it real".

-Cliff
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Thanks for the link Cliff, it was interesting to say the least.
 
USAFSP said:
Yeah, but I wonder how many of these maker's knives have actually been used in killing someone.
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I would bet that very few of them are actually significantly used at all. It would be interesting to see military statistics on the results of armed conflicts and just how many knife fights result and how many of them are settled with high end cutlery vs standard issue.

-Cliff
 
I can say that in my meager 11 years of service the only tales of knife fighting I have heard are from World War vets I have talked to and by some dreamers here on the BFC.
 
DGG said:
I can give you some very good technical reasons why some knives cost more than others including many of those you listed. However I can't with the Strider which is what disturbs me. What am I missing?

As I have frequently said, I think the Strider is a great knife, and the folks that make it are super people. However I have not been convinced in my own mind that I can't get as good or a better knife for a much lower price. But that's just me. That's why I'm curious to know what other educated and experienced knife users are seeing in these knives that I obviously am not. I would like to think I have some little knowledge about knives and am not a big dummy!
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Ok. DGG, I get the feeling we are going around in circles here. As I said, different strokes for different folks. I would hazard a guess that most of our knife purchases rely heavily on personal preference.

Consider this, I am not a watch nut. I have a $500 dollar citizen that was given to me as a gift. I can not tell you, by performance, if it keeps better time that the Timex I got 10 years ago. The timex even has a stopwatch and other neat stuff that the Citizen doesn't.

I can not understand why people would want to spend thousands of dollars on a watch that keeps the same time as a Timex?:confused: But people gladly spend that money Seikos, Rolexes, etc. Watches are their "thing".

My manix and my SMF are made of essentially the same materials. S30v blade, G10. They are roughly the same size, so your question seems to be, "Why spend so much more on the Strider". Here are a couple of my "personal reasons" why I am willing to pay more for the Strider:

- Strider is a low volume maker/dealer compared to the big guys. I am willing to pay a little more for the fact that I have a knife that not every Joe Blow has clipped to his pocket or is not going to show up in the display case at Wal-Mart any time soon. I am not sure I can say that about the Manix.

- I like the fact that Strider knives are made entirely in the US. I am willing to pay a little more for that fact. I know the Manix is made in Colorado, but I am sure the ones made in Japan help offset the cost of Domestic manufacturing.

- I am willing to pay a little more for the fact that I am encouraged to field strip, clean, and maintain my knife. I can't do that with a Manix as easily, and they certainly don't encourage it.

- I am willing to pay a little more for the fact that I have shaken the hand of the guy who sweated in a little shop and ground, fitted, and assembled my knife. I wouldn't even know how to do that with my Manix.

I could go on, but if you add up all these little things that I am willing to pay more for, well then you have the reason why "I" believe the Strider is worth more than the Manix.

None of the above reasons are performance-based. As I said, my manix will likely do most things my SMF will do, and my $50 dollar CRKT will likely do most things my Manix will do. These are just of few of MY reasons that I bought the Strider. :)
 
I have to say that i agree with Mick. You do waht you gotta. Knife fights arent sheeple freindly. Ive been stabbed in the shoulder stomach and forearms with various things and i cant tell you that if one of those was to the neck id have been screwed. Knife fights are brutal, and bloody. Mick is completley right when he says that you have to shut off the processor. Id rather be called a jerk and train right and live, than to be sheeple freindly and train in feel good karate at the local YMCA and die.
 
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