STRIDER vs BUSSE

[Cobalt]

I have owned knives from both Busse and Strider. While I found both companies to be lacking in the fit and finish category, both brands had their ups and downs..

While I can't speak for Strider, I can say that I have never been dissapointed by Busses fit and Finish, although I am sure that a few get out. Specifically what knives did you get from Busse that were lacking in fit and finish and when did you get them?

I had definite rust issues with the INFI though, which should be expected. This is not a stainless steel. The rusting issue, in my case, was made even worse by the pitted finish left on the blade tang. Strider’s combination of S30v and blade coating was far more rust resistant than my unpainted INFI blade. Painted INFI is something I have not used extensively, but it should be stainless enough for all but the worst of environments. .

Funny I have not had any rust issues with my infi and I have left multiple SHBM's laying out n the backyard several times during bad weather.

Both steels are rather difficult to field sharpen. I actually tried to reprofile my Busse by hand once, using 200 grit wet/dry paper, and got virtually nowhere. INFI is very tough stuff, although it can work both for and against you at times. .

Actually I have found infi to be easier than any stainless steel to sharpen and about as easy as 1095 steel. But I think this is a matter of technique. some people do better than others at different steels.

The one nail in the casket for me, as far as Busse goes, was the ability of the knife to cut. Both samples I tried had very obtuse edge angles, and had far too much steel behind the sharpened edge, to be very useful. You could chop with them, but that was about it. Any cuts requiring more finesse than a full chop were pretty bad. .

Actually the blade geometry of a flat ground 1/4 inch thick battlemistress or steel heart with a 1.75 inch blade width has a better blade geometry than a saber ground 1/8 inch thick folding blade in my pocket. The two sharpest knives I have ever held were boh Busses. a BM-E and my 8 inch PBF. I also have a SHBM LE based custom shop blade that is scary sharp as well. The blade geometry is there and fine tuning the edge geometry is easy enough. These blades are far from sharpened prybars, they are good cutting tools. What samples did you try? did you own them or were they purchased by someone else?

In the end, neither brand won me over.

What kind of blades have you seen that you liked. I am interested in where your taste lies.

 

[Buzzbait]

Both of the Dozier's I handled were outcut many to one by an Opinel or $5 Mora.

-Cliff

That I believe. But you originaly mentioned a Busse, not a thinly ground knife.

 

[Cobalt]

That I believe. But you originaly mentioned a Busse, not a thinly ground knife.

Ok, I read which busses you had. that answers that question. Man, you must have some super thin razor style blades. If I had anything like that I'd be n the hospital all the time

I like them sharp but not as sharp as an actual razor with equal thinnes.

 

[Buzzbait]

Cobolt- I mentioned the exact Busse knives earlier in this thread. The Satin Jack was roughly finished, and had pits in the steel. The NO was very roughly finished underneath the blade coating. I expected better for the price I was charged.

I had my Satin Jack with me on a somewhat rainy day, with high humidilty, for approximately 5 hours. When I got back to camp, the knife was rusted in 8 different spots, where the pits were.

I personally found my Satin Jack to much tougher to grind than any 1095 that I've used. The INFI seemed to be much more abrasion resistant. This is hardly a bad thing. Just a tradeoff.

In the end, I purchased a Marbles knife, in 52100 steel. Excellent steel, awesome heat treatment, and superb fit and finish. Wickedly sharp, and perfectly ground for most outdoor applications. My initial Marbles experience led to many more 52100 Marbles purchases. Thus far, they are probably the best outdoor knives I've ever used.

 

[Buzzbait]

Razor thin might not be exactly true, but I do like my knives to cut very efficiently. I personally find a knife that doesn't cut very efficiently to be far too dangerous for outdoor use. If you ever use a Dozier or a Marbles, you'll know exactly what I prefer as far as cutting efficiency goes. I can't imagine ever skinning an animal or cleaning a fish with a Busse, after my previous experiences.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

That I believe. But you originaly mentioned a Busse, not a thinly ground knife.

All I did was change the angle on my SHBM, it has a two inch primary on 1/4" stock, this is typical of large bowies. I mentioned the Opinel simply because of your comment

When you pay Busse pricing, the knife should cut well, straight from the factory.

I noted that a K2 doesn't cut well at all if you compare it to a $5 Opinel and it is vastly more expensive. However if someone asked about Dozier's knives is it likely that this would be the perspective you would give?

-Cliff

 

[Buzzbait]

No Cliff, I do not equate the thinness of a grind with price. I do however, equate the ability of a knife like a Satin Jack, to cut efficiently, upon the recommendation of the company's owner, with price. Did that make sense?

I also equate a decent fit and finish with price.

 

[Buzzbait]

Like a said before, I had a bad experience. The toughness of a Busse met my expectations. The cutting ability, fit and finish did not, despite the throng of people who said that it would. So be it. Busse knives were obviously not meant to handle the chores that I would use a knife for. No biggie. Others may love Busse knives, and have different uses, and be less picky about fit and finish.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

It sounds to me, and correct me if I am wrong- that you bought a coated blade, stripped the coating off, and then were surprised that it was rough?

Why didn't you just buy a satin finished blade? That would resist rust better.

 

[Boats]

He had a coated NO and it was rough under the coating (probably meant visibly rough despite being coated).
He didn't like the NO's thickness or cutting performance.
Mr. Busse suggested a Satin Jack might suit him better.
He traded the NO back for the SJ, got it and it was roughly finished.
It proceeded to rust in those spots that were rough.
Disenchanted with the fit and finish and the cutting performance in relation to the price demanded in his experience with both knives, he traded the SJ off.

There's the Cliff's Notes version, you may now resume your campaign to get Mr. Buzzbait to recant.

 

[Eric Isaacson]

It sounds to me, and correct me if I am wrong- that you bought a coated blade, stripped the coating off, and then were surprised that it was rough?

Why didn't you just buy a satin finished blade? That would resist rust better.

I actually think Buzzbait is referring to a Satin Jack that had an uncoated spine. I assume this is what he is referring to as being uncoated. I've had some spotting on uncoated Busses but it is easily removed with a scotchbrite pad and I've never seen any that would concern me (ie pitting etc)

I think there are much better Busses out there for the work that Buzzbait is referring to(cleaning animals and fish) However, at the time he was looking the Active Duty was not in production and the new Game Warden was not even a concept knife. Of course there are also the old fillet knives and smaller knives like the 3 finger that would work for some of this smaller work. I believe that there are a lot of Busse options out there, but like anything worth doing sometimes it takes some research to find the right style/design for your intended purposes. If I remember correctly Buzzbait does a lot of fishing, camping, hiking etc the Busses he got certainly would work for that, however, they are really designed more for a combat/survival knife.

I have no doubt that some of the Busses I have can outcut anything else on the market. My Active Duties have an incredibly thin edge and hold it for a long time, I have an Assault Shaker that they thinned the edge on that is a great cutter. I've had ZT SH's that would outcut any big blade. But it helps to research each knife and determine which one fits your cutting needs.

I have no money to buy any Striders, I've spent it all on Busses

 

[sodak]

Razor thin might not be exactly true, but I do like my knives to cut very efficiently. I personally find a knife that doesn't cut very efficiently to be far too dangerous for outdoor use. If you ever use a Dozier or a Marbles, you'll know exactly what I prefer as far as cutting efficiency goes. I can't imagine ever skinning an animal or cleaning a fish with a Busse, after my previous experiences.

So be it, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've had to thin mine out also, although that's been true for most of my knives, but not Doziers so much. I've thinned them out a little, but they were pretty close to optimum straight from the shop. I've also found that properly hardened D2 with the right geometry is better (for me) in small cutters than INFI for wear resistance and edge retention. And yes, I have a *very* thinned out Active Duty. Part of it is also ergonomics. For cutting tasks that you mentioned, including skinning, a Dozier or Fehrman Peacemaker have great ergonomics for my hand. YMMV. For general purpose tasks, I have a thinned out Bandicoot that's hard to beat. For garden work, I like the old Eriksson Mora #22. Best dandelion digger in the world!

For large, rough and tough chopper/cutters, I really like INFI. I wish there were a way to retain the slab sided Ergonomic series, but give it more forward weighting. I always thought they were a little too neutral weighted for great chopping. Having said that, I've used both SH and BM ergos with great results for large knife tasks and have been very pleased, crushed pinky and all.

 

[hara-kiri-yogi]

And he really does make some great tools. Im hoping that eventually he'll eventually shange his blade steel from s30v to zdp 189.

My dream knife is strider BT made out of INFI.:thumbup:

Or S7, or A9, or L6 or 9260 or even 5160. hell even 12c27... or 3V, SOMETHING... I hear you, he really does make some bad looking blades.

 

[Cobalt]

In the end, I purchased a Marbles knife, in 52100 steel. Excellent steel, awesome heat treatment, and superb fit and finish. Wickedly sharp, and perfectly ground for most outdoor applications. My initial Marbles experience led to many more 52100 Marbles purchases. Thus far, they are probably the best outdoor knives I've ever used.

Marbles are very nice knives. I have had a few over the years, including smaller 52100's and a trailmaker. 52100 is one of my favorite steels. I do not like stick tangs, however, so I got rid of those. But they were good knives none the less. Not tough but good for cutting. I would rather own a 52100 blade even with it's lack of rust resistance than any stainless blade made. that steel is just so much better than the majority of steels out there.

but sorry to change the direction of the thread.

Striders are advertised as hard use tough knives. S30V is not a tough steel by any standards, so how does this jive? If strider used 3V, then there might be a comparison, but as far as I am concerned, there is no comparison here at all. Really, if you were to make a comparison to busse, you would have to go with either Fehrman's 3V blades or with Customs made of either 3V or forged 52100.

I don't think I would even compare a strider fixed blade to a Chris Reeve fixed blade. The Reeves would be my choice over the strider hands down. A-2 is a better choice than S30V any day.

S30V will chip out more easily than ATS34 by the way, I have witnessed it.

And I will stack my Timberline Specwar made of ATS34 against a Strider Fixed blade any day of the week, for the most extreme use you could think of. :thumbup: This knife retailed for $399 and I paid $279 for it.

this is all IMO, by the way.

 

[Buzzbait]

Eric - The Satin Jack actually came with a satin finish. It was sort of an LE Satin Jack, but without the special engraving. The pitting in the finish was a real bummer. Looking back, I totally agree that, at that time, there was nothing in the Busse line that was designed for my personal outdoor knife chores. The Satin Jack was the closest there was, but the grind was still far too thick. Afterward, the Active Duty was released, and I did ask questions to a number of people who had bought one. Their impression was that the grind was still too thick. At that time, I pretty much gave up on my dream INFI knife. I have no idea what Busse currently offers, or if the grinds have thinned out, or if the fit and finish has improved.

There was the option of thinning the edge on the Satin Jack, but thinning the entire convex was far more work than my hands could do in a reasonable amount of time.



I have no idea why Strider uses S30V. There are sooooooo many steels that are more appropriate for large and heavy duty fixed blades. Especially ones to handle the abuse that Strider designs their knives for.

 

[razorsdescent]

Or S7, or A9, or L6 or 9260 or even 5160. hell even 12c27... or 3V, SOMETHING... I hear you, he really does make some bad looking blades.

Micks customs are really mean. But they are also really well thought out, they arent fantasy blades. His slcc is a great EDC user knife. And as previously stated i love the no frills efficiency of the bt design it really is a wrecking bar with sharp edges. :thumbup:

Alot of this QC claims are imo a bunch of crap. My slcc which is almost my favorite knife (beat out by the busse hr's) is the sharpest knife ive ever owned. it was scary sharp. Barely less sharp than my straight razor.

Alot of the detractors have never owned a strider.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I wish there were a way to retain the slab sided Ergonomic series, but give it more forward weighting.

The tang could be tapered and have the exact same shape by just doing an encapsulated grip. It could just be tapered in thickness without doing a full partial tang and just running basically a reverse distal taper. If you did basically an hourglass type taper it might even look kind of cool. You could also just cut big holes in the grip which a lot of manufacturers do because it is way cheaper than tapers, but there are many reasons why this is really not as functional.

No Cliff, I do not equate the thinness of a grind with price. I do however, equate the ability of a knife like a Satin Jack, to cut efficiently, upon the recommendation of the company's owner, with price. Did that make sense?

Seems like a contradiction because you get cutting ability from the thinness of the grind. Note the exact same thing could be said about the K2 because there isn't a defined standard so it just depends on what you reference it against. The difference in cutting ability between a K2 and Opinel for example is actually much larger than a stock Howling Rat and K2.

When you spoke to Jerry did you give examples of what you required specifically. I for example typically carry for EDC (when not evaluating) knives 1/16" thick, hollow ground, edges of 3/6 degrees. This is what I rank as efficient cutting knives, but I would not expect Jerry to know that if I just told him I wanted a utility cutting pattern. I'd be really specific as in "I am looking for an edge about 0.025", angle of 15 per side."

Similar for having blades reground, be as specific as possible geometry wise. This eliminates you and the maker having a different opinion of what "good cutter" means.

I also equate a decent fit and finish with price.

This is to be expected, it isn't a high point of Busse though compared relatively to Reeve for example who basically benchmarks that aspect. Strider is the extreme opposite of Reeve in fit/finish. Busse is inbetween the two.

-Cliff

 

[Buzzbait]

To be honest, it was too long ago to remember. I believe that I directly referenced my father-law's Marbles Woodcraft, and may even have offered to send it to him. I'm not positive though. This was years and many knives ago. It's a lot of water under the bridge. Ultimately, I was ultimately not impressed by Busse knives, other than the INFI. Your mileage may vary.

 

[lreed]

infi is amazing in rust-resistance.
I had an AssaultShaker stored in sheath with blood on it for 6 months. It caused some rust, but the rust was very superfacial and I just wiped it off with a few strops on a piece of cardboard.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The knives have changed a lot in the past few years in many respects. Hopefully the new line will be up sometime soon and definate questions can be asked about the standard edge configurations.

-Cliff