Stripping some Beckers : New Logo Etching Update

[Dexwithers]

So guess the weather does have an effect on the acid etching?

Went out this morning and it was around 30degrees and this is what things looked like.

It's either frozen or crystalized? Crazy right?

So I just added some more and rubbed the solution in to sit for a few more hours.

Gonna wash them up later and if it is cold again tonight, I'm gonna wait till it warms up to etch them again.

 

[tuica]

Thanks for the excellent tutorial!

 

[Jens Schuetz]

I prefer electrolytic etching since its faster.
But now seeing so many of your blades etched at the same time, I can see how the chemical way is more convenient. Simply apply and wait instead of working each steel for 2-3 minutes with an electrode :thumbup:

 

[Dexwithers]

Thanks for the excellent tutorial!

No problem. Have lot's more to update and post, just don't have the time right now. Will get more up soon. Thanks for looking.

I prefer electrolytic etching since its faster.
But now seeing so many of your blades etched at the same time, I can see how the chemical way is more convenient. Simply apply and wait instead of working each steel for 2-3 minutes with an electrode :thumbup:

I need to look into making a faster and deeper Electrolytic etcher, mine just tickles the surface. lol

And your right, just set it and forget it! haha Easy but the wait time is killing me.

 

[Dexwithers]

Okay, so I have a couple of new things. First off the taping of the parts that I didn't want etched wasn't going as good as I wanted. Some of the etchant was soaking into the tape and getting onto some of the parts and I also had to change the tape every time I washed and applied new etchant. So I went back to my old way and applied the fingernail polish. It is more time consuming in the beginning but overall it is a better way of doing it and I recommend it over the taping. Live and learn, that's why we are here.

A few tips on applying the polish: First make sure the area is completely clean. Next I taped off the area that I wanted to etch and didn't want polish on. Then I applied the polish and let dry completely. This can take a while so don't rush. I then did this a few more coats and let dry each time.
This is how it looks after I'm done. It is the best way in my experiences and opinion.

Now I wasn't getting the results as fast as I was used to so I decided to use some fresh etchant. The old stuff I was trying to use up just didn't have the potency I wanted.

I let it go for a day and night like that and then flipped it over and did the other side. Should be done today.



Stay tuned for some revelations. I'll put it in a new post.

 

[Dexwithers]

So I love this forum for many reasons, One of them is how I always learn new things from all of you.

This week I learned a new way to Etch and I wanted to share it with you all so you can decide which way you is best for you.

I first want to thank Dogzovwar81 for showing this method in his awesome thread here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1160483-Modding-my-first-Becker

Thanks man for sharing that and giving me new ideas!

Next I want to thank granitestateofmind for posting this in the above mentioned thread:

Dex, I don't think it's a question of juice; a 9V battery has very little current flow....just make sure you are using a DC power source.....AC blackens metal, DC does the etching. Terminal polarity is really important for DC to work: + terminal to steel, - to Q-tip = metal removed. If you reverse it, the system tries to add metal, which will cause some nasty stuff to happen at the other terminal. That's also how Alternating Current blackens, as it's cycling between + and - current flow. Isn't electricity fun?

Now this is where the wheels in my head started turning. I have heard of people doing the cellphone charger thing but never paid it much attention since I had an etcher that I bought, no need for a DIY if you have one already right? I have used my etcher many times to darken logos and make etches and it did just that. Darken. I have tried to make deep etches with it before and failed. So that's one reason why I like to use the PCB acid etch. Now after Granite posted this I went out and checked my etcher. That's right, it said output VAC. So I did what anyone would have done and looked around the garage for an unused plug that said output VDC. This is what I found pictured next to my original etcher.

I have a box of cellphone chargers in my storage shed down the hill but didn't feel like walking down there at night in shorts in 30degree temps so I used this Linksys one. I am going to dig them all out soon and see what the differences are. Really, I am not great with electricity. I have no Idea what all the numbers and stuff mean when it comes to volts and amps and everything else.

So I tried it. Note: I flipped the plug around in the socket to get this to work so the negative wire would be on the q-tip, just like Granite said in his post.
It's just positive wire to the blade, negative wire to the q-tip or other conductor (I even tried just a small steel rod and it worked fine), and some salt water.

It was actually working! OMG!

Was getting kinda deep too.

I finished with my other etcher just to blacken it since this method doesn't leave it black.

Perfect!

Here is the other side.

Now to see how it looks. Sprayed with stripper.

Then scrape it off.

It actually worked and got decently deep!

Now I knew it worked I wanted to improve on the design and try on another knife!

That's right, alligator clips! haha

In my opinion, If you are doing just one knife at a time and want to do it for free, then go the electrical route. I would say get two plugs, one DC to deepen, then one AC to darken. Please do some research on your own first and ask someone who really know electricity before you do this cause I don't want anyone getting electrocuted!!! Really, water and electricity can be bad.
Maybe someone who know more can chime in and tell us what volts and amps and watts and all that to use or stay away from.

I did try this method out of a few more of the knives that I was acid etching but it was taking to much hands on time to get it as deep as I wanted and didn't want to do it for all of them. Both ways have pluses and minuses. Depends on how deep you want it and how many knifes you are doing at a time. PCB can get very deep but may take you up to a week, but there is really no work involved, it can be messy tho. The electric way is much quicker, maybe 2 to 5 minutes per side? But you have to be there hands on the whole time. Then have to find a way to blacken it. Maybe AC plug way.

Anyway, I hope this helps some of you. I know I feel like I got schooled on electric etching this week! I will use the electric way for sure on most of my new knives and do them as soon as I get them. No need to wait till I have a whole bunch to do anymore!!

 

[Darksidedenny]

Looks like a lot of time/ work but again you have 10 knives...! Enjoy watching as it goes,will wait for more,thanx

 

[Dexwithers]

Looks like a lot of time/ work but again you have 10 knives...! Enjoy watching as it goes,will wait for more,thanx

Haha. Time yes, not much work........... just a few mins here and a few mins there. Mine have been etching all night and I haven't had to do a thing!
But it is worth it in the end to have the deeper logos. But you are right, 10 knives at once can be lot of work.

 

[Aikiguy]

This is a great post you put together Dex, I think I'm gonna try etching my 16 before any more wear occurs on the coating. Quick question, i see you did one etch with bluing and bleach; was there a noticeable difference between that one and the ones with the PCB etchant? Better or worse? Didn't see an answer in your write up. It's just I have some gun blue on hand (and too lazy to hunt some etchant down lol). Or maybe I'll just cobble together some transformers together and try that out. Decisions, decisions...

 

[Don W]

Thanks for putting this post together for us. It is very helpful.

 

[Dexwithers]

This is a great post you put together Dex, I think I'm gonna try etching my 16 before any more wear occurs on the coating. Quick question, i see you did one etch with bluing and bleach; was there a noticeable difference between that one and the ones with the PCB etchant? Better or worse? Didn't see an answer in your write up. It's just I have some gun blue on hand (and too lazy to hunt some etchant down lol). Or maybe I'll just cobble together some transformers together and try that out. Decisions, decisions...

Hi Aikiguy, Sorry for not updating info about that. I actually ended up just PCB-ing that one with the others. Reason was since the temperatures dropped so much when starting this project, I had to move everything inside and the Gun Blue and Bleach combo gives off some nasty fumes. It did do some eating at the metal but I can't tell you how much difference it made.

I do want to try this method again and would change the way I would do it. I would coat the edge of the knife with something like fingernail polish then apply blueing to the logo, then dip the knife in a jar of bleach and let it sit for a while. I think this would be most effective. As soon as it warms up again I am going to do a blade this way and post the results here.

Good luck with your 16! Maybe just try the electrical way? It's really simple.

Thanks for putting this post together for us. It is very helpful.

Your welcome Don! I've got a few more ideas of stuff I want to add too. Kind of my all in one how to mod thread.

 

[Dexwithers]

So I think they have all etched enough. I am going to leave the coating on most of them and use them like that till I am ready to do more mods.

Here is the BK14 that I am going to start modding now so I stripped it to show you how the etched part looks compared to the non etched part.

Done etching.

You can see it looks plenty deep.

Sprayed some stripper. And I'm not sure if the cold weather has something to do with it or not but the stripper is not acting as fast or as good as it usually does.

This is fresh after stripping. I just scrapped the coating off with an exacto knife.

As you can see the BK&T shows up very well. The Kabar part does not, but it is still visible.

A little light sanding with 400 grit wet dry.

Just a little more light sanding up to 600 grit.

The etching from the factory is not into the metal. If I run my finger or fingernail over it, I can't feel anything at all. It is only a discoloration of the metal that Even if not sanded will fade to almost nothing or be completely gone once a patina forms on your blade. I know because I have a few knives that the logo did this.

I really like how this one turned out. On this 14, I only wanted the names of the designers, not the full logo. It will look really good once I sand up to 1000 or 2000 and put custom handle scales on it.


I hope this helps some of you out there. Feel free to ask me any questions you have.

I will post some more of the other knives when I get to them, right now they have all been washed, dried, and set aside till I get around to them.

 

[granitestateofmind]

Looking good, Dex!
Not to jack the thread, but for anyone looking for more info on electrochemical etching, here are a coupla more threads:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1107696-Electro-etching-my-new-BK-16-patina

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1157003-Building-an-etcher-and-using-electrochemical-etching-on-a-BK12

I've tried to make it look harder than it is, but it's not. And it has the benefits of being both more easily controllable as far as the depth goes and is a lot faster and more consistent. Also the ability to blacken your etch or not.

 

[Dexwithers]

Awesome Granite!!!! That is great info. Really wish I would have paid attention to that when you first posted. Thanks for the links. And I can only get the bk16 link to work? Feel free to post up a description or whatever here if you want. The more knowledge the better.

 

[DanDanthedirtyoldman]

Sorry for the late response, things have been crazy around here lately.



I think Granite answered it for ya and he is correct about the coating acting as a mask.
Here is a link to my BK-16 thread where you can see how deep I got it after 1 week of etching. But basically the PCB etchant is the way to go. Just leave it on for a while and then wipe it off and apply more. repeat the process until the etch is as deep as you want. I usually apply it about twice a day for a few days to get a decent etch. I went way longer than that on my newer 16 and it came out really deep, almost like the old roll stamped blades.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tion-Extravaganza-Thread?highlight=dexwithers

Hope that helps.



I think about 30 to 45 mins. I think I did it twice. You can always apply more. From my experience, it is best not to coat the entire thing, it needs a little air in some spots. I'd say just try it out and if you don't like it, polish it off and start again. I wouldn't leave it for more than an hour or two at a time since some mustards are more acidic and will eat into the blade quicker.



Some work better than others but they all work. I used the aircraft paint remover but some prefer the Jasco. It depends what your store sells i guess.

Thanks for all the great info, you have some very nice looking blades!

I'm curious. In this thread you specifically protected the coating on the handles to prevent stripping, but in your thread devoted to the 16 it looks like you stripped the whole thing. Is it because you plan to epoxy the handle so you're not worried about rust? I don't even know if that would work just a hunch.

 

[Zaper]

Great job, Granite!

I´m eating my nails waiting for the next steps!

 

[B.Mauser]

Sprayed some stripper. And I'm not sure if the cold weather has something to do with it or not but the stripper is not acting as fast or as good as it usually does.

Yeah, its the cold. Cold really reduces the power of paint stripper. I have a much harder time stripping blades here in the winter. Johnny came up with a good tip that might help. He points his 500 watt halogen shop light at it and he says it works great. I have the same light and gave it a try but it was just still too cold here in my unheated garage to make a noticeable difference. Maybe it will work for you :thumbup:

 

[Eero]

I really like how the logo edits on that 14 turned out. Nice work. Got my head swimming with ideas...

 

[Dexwithers]

Thanks for all the great info, you have some very nice looking blades!

I'm curious. In this thread you specifically protected the coating on the handles to prevent stripping, but in your thread devoted to the 16 it looks like you stripped the whole thing. Is it because you plan to epoxy the handle so you're not worried about rust? I don't even know if that would work just a hunch.

Thanks Dan. And I have a few threads devoted to 16's. haha. I think you are talking about the saber one and yes I did epoxy scales on that one. If you look thru towards the end of that thread you will see the completed blade. I do prefer to leave the coating on under the scales if I am going to use the bolt on type scales just because water does get under them and it is a pain to have to keep taking the scales off and cleaning and oiling the tang. And yes I have tried everything from Vaseline, to oil, to bees wax under the scales to prevent water and nothing protects it quite as good as the original coating.

Yeah, its the cold. Cold really reduces the power of paint stripper. I have a much harder time stripping blades here in the winter. Johnny came up with a good tip that might help. He points his 500 watt halogen shop light at it and he says it works great. I have the same light and gave it a try but it was just still too cold here in my unheated garage to make a noticeable difference. Maybe it will work for you :thumbup:

Thanks for the tip B.Mauser! I do believe I will try that next time. Luckily it is heating up here and I wont have that problem in a few weeks. It took so long when it was cold that I actually thought they might have changed the formula on the stripper since it was a brand new bottle.

I really like how the logo edits on that 14 turned out. Nice work. Got my head swimming with ideas...

Thanks Eero! I really like how it came out. What logo edits are you planning?

 

[zzyzzogeton]

Last week I stripped a 9.... I did it outside in 70degF weather, in full sunlight. The first run, I let sit for 30 minutes while I did something else. 90% basically just slid off, 5% more came off with a little scrubbing. I did a second dose for 25 minutes and the rest came off with ease. So 70degF or above works well.