Stropsanity: Compounds, Substrates, and the Godstones

[UncleBoots]

U UncleBoots RadialBladeworks Would you please describe the deburring method(s) you are using with these stones? How fine are you taking the edge before deburring? Are there any signs that you are scratching the superfine stone?

I used light, edge-trailing strokes right on the bevel after 1000 or 2000 grit sharpening (these were large kitchen or really large butchering knives). 10 strokes per side did the trick in most cases; 20 in one stubborn case. Yes, there are fine scratches on the stone that just look like grey lines. I can't feel any disruption in the smooth surface with my finger, but I can see them as scratches at 15X magnification. I have the impression that most of them came from that stubborn knife, which had a lot of ragged burring because I had sharpened past some damage, but I can't be sure that's right.

 

[RadialBladeworks]

U UncleBoots RadialBladeworks Would you please describe the deburring method(s) you are using with these stones? How fine are you taking the edge before deburring? Are there any signs that you are scratching the superfine stone?

Simply put, I use the stone itself as a strop at a slightly higher angle than my edge bevel

Typically I take my edges to a mirror because I think they’re neato, but on a work blade that I’m sharpening constantly, I will take the edge to 1k. For abuse knives, I will take them to 220, but those edges do not apply here.

Procedure:
- Sharpen to 1k
- Minimize burr with progressively gentler strokes and with more frequent side switching
- Strop the edge on an extremely high grit stone (8k+) approximately three to five times per sides, as gently as possible. No scratches to the stone. Virtually zero stone wear. Just whatever swarf the stone takes off

 

[Barmaley]

What is the grade/type ( I am not sure how to call it) of leather and where is it available? Is it on Amazon? The leather which I got seems to be of a wrong type: the more I sand the more hair it sticks out of it

 

[kreisler]

- Second, I use thicker 8-9oz veg tanned leather because, ironically, it is very stiff. There is a lot more involved in the stiffness of leather than simply the thickness. Generally I find thinner leathers, because of the way they have been treated, actually flex the most, although it may not seem like it.
- Third, using thicker leather allows you to literally sand it flat. There are imperfections within the flesh that can be felt in your stroke. Use 60 grit paper to quickly sand the leather flat, then surface finish it with 220 grit paper, then rub the shit out of it with a strip of denim to clean out the fibers and bring out a nice suede.

There were three people in this thread to advocate the leather sanding process, RadialBladeworks K kreisler and @NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY . The latter made a video with good explanations:

It appears that you B Barmaley sanded off too much of the smooth leather layer? Can you see the thinness of the layer? I got my leather from an ebay shop and a local horse saddle maker, nothing special, just the cheapest kind of leather they had, and they called it vegetable tanned or sumting. I would be the wrong guy to ask about leather strops anyway, since i really doht use leather strops (of any kind or size) anymore. kreisl is the lazy dude and exclusively uses those paint stirring staffs for stropping:

 

[kreisler]

One pack contains a set of six paint stirring staffs which can be used as strops once loaded with compound.

The other day i was in a local ACTION branch (there are many in my region) and also checked, for the sake of checking, if they still carried the 6-pack of paint stirring staffs (geman search terms are <rührholz> or <rührstab>), we're in coruna times after all and there might be a general shortage in supply of shelved items. To my surprise, the branch store didn't carry it anymore, i also talked to the store manager, and the above link for the product webpage doesn't work any longer. Given the nature of their business, nobody at the ACTION company can foresse if they will carry the item again in future. It still have two 6-packs in storage:

I go through 2 sticks per year maybe, so the two packs should last me for a while. But whoever has read the post and feels inspired to go looking for the inexpensive 6-pack in a local or not so local ACTION branch should be warned: you might not find it there anymore, 3100 sorry!

Alternative sources for buying a painter's "rührstab" are the big hardware chain stores, of course. I checked the websites of OBI, BAUHAUS, HORNBACH, TOOM, GLOBUS BAUMARKT, and they offer single staffs ranging between 0.4 - 1.6 EUR/piece, or a 20-pack of thinner ones (i have not tried them yet, so no recommendation from me for now!) for less than 2EUR/pack. There were no hits on the HAGEBAUMARKT website. As we can imagine, not all wood staff SKU's have the same quality or might be equally suitable for our stropping purposes. The characteristics we wanna see are:

• the wood finish be very smooth, dense, fine, flat, homogeneous, with no irregularities.
• the wood surface be uncoated, natural
• like a crayon, your solid stropping compound should "permanently" adhere well to the wood surface (in the pores, ..)
• having a handle and a low price would be nice!

Whenever i visit another ACTION branch in future, i will be looking for supply of the WERCKMEISTER sku, i'd buy another five 6-packs, a no-brainer. The price and quality are unbeatable! Paint stir staffs in a business like ACTION are imho not hot-selling or important items, so how can anyone in the supply chain earn a profit with such a sku? Hilarious.

I got the product 3.5yrs ago time flies, it looks ugly by now, and it's time to let go or move on. I've ordered a new one, US$3.68 shipped lol from AX.

Today (2020-07-15) i received the new one, ordered 2020-05-22. I had almost forgotten about the order, time just flies. The unit is very similar in build and quality, the wood finish is less fine/smooth, has machining marks. I'll use this CN wood strop for tools i guess. The edges on the handle were sharp, uncomfortable, so i cut a chamfer with my EDC knife and almost ruined the splintering wood. I also tried some sanding of the thin leather and loaded either leather side with solid compound crumbs/powder. I won't use it seriously anytime soon, since my generally preferred stropping method is the wooden paint stirring staff (and not even the PTS method which i have been proclaiming on the forum as well).

 

[afishhunter]

Sixty years ago, (maybe sixty-one) I was taught to dry strop using a leather "barber's straight razor strop" to remove any burr, and to refresh the edge. If a barber's strop was not available, a leather belt or even (clean) leather of/on your shoe or boot.
(I was also taught that a burr was a "very bad thing", and to always push the edge on the stone, never pull, as a means of avoiding a burr.)

I very rarely "have" to use a stone after setting the angle to 10° per side (give or take roughly 2 or 3°, since I sharpen freehand).
On the stone I raise the spine just enough not to scratch the flat of the blade, and work both sides evenly until sharp. I don't put on a "micro bevel"

Using the "fingernail" or (thumbnail) sharpness test of putting the edge on your finger or thumbnail while horizontal, then slowly raising the angle of the finger or thumbnail towards vertical, with nothing but the weight of the blade pressing down on the finger or thumbnail, if you can raise the angle to at least 60~65 degrees vertical without the blade slipping off, the knife is "sharp enough".
While 60 to 65 degrees vertical may be "good enough", I strive for (and usually achieve) "90 to 95° vertical.

A call it "20 degree inclusive" edge angle works well on all my slipjoints, Buck 110's, Old Timer 6OT/7OT, and fixed blades.
The edge lasts long enough to skin and gut around 2.5 Whitetail, before dry stropping to refresh/restore the edge is needed.

Not using a stone every time the edge needs refreshed extends the life of the knife quite a bit.