Student Arrested For Knife, Boston

Originally posted by hd2k_va
[workers This is not the story of some innocent little, pie-faced baby boy forgetting about the Spyderco Mouse dangling from his key chain. This is the story of a tough punk who was stupid enough to carry a weapon onto an airplane in January '02, lie about it and get caught.


How do you know that he was a "tough punk"? If you have extra information about this case, let us know. The article does say that he came from a rough neighborhood and that his current school is located in rough neighborhood. Lots of people on this forum carry because of the neighborhoods where they work or live. Maybe the reason why he lied was because he feared that there were those who upon seeing him would assume he was a "punk" no matter what he said. Once again, that does not excuse his bad judgement, but it does not make him a hardened criminal either.
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Anthony, I have to agree with you here. I would love to know where the street tough and tough punk came from. At no point in the article did it mention him being considered either of these things by the authorities. I have known people that lived in rough areas and they were not toughs or punks, and a few of them carried knives just to protect themselves from those that actually were. It sounds like he is being considered a tough punk because he carries a knife and lives in a rough part of town. That sounds pretty judgemental to me.

What he did was stupid and he deserves what he gets, but I refuse to think that what he did makes him a bad guy. IMO the problem here is that it should never have been illegal for him to take the knife on the plane with him in the first place. People are being made criminals for doing what we should rightfully be able to do.
 
NOT. Tell me, Anthony. Why did you start throwing around terms like "gang member", "menace to society", "hardened criminal"? Just trying to put some words in my mouth or is that your opinion of him?

You don't know that this punk lives in a rough neighborhood. All the article says is that he allegedly TOLD the cops he lives in one. Let's assume he was telling the truth. (Although I don't really see why we should, after all, he LIED to the security guards.) Maybe he likes rough neighborhoods, or contributes to its roughness. Do you know. Nope, and neither do I. When I lived in the rough part of town it was by choice, not by accident.

I'll grant you that he might not be tough. But he's definitely a punk. You keep asserting it's because of where he lives. Wrong. It's because of what he did. If you don't like that word, tell me how you would describe a 23 year old male sneaking a knife onto a plane in his shoe then lying to security guards? Nice fella, role model, genius, boy scout ... these don't pop into my head. And don't forget, you're the one who started talking about gangs and hardened criminals. Gee, I wonder what your first impressions were.
 
If someone "confiscates" your knife without legal reason, isn't that grand theft? If someone woud actually charge a few of these "security" people we might break up some of this stuff.

I have already posted a response to the Boston knife ordinance on another thread but I'd like to make the same comment here. Would it be practical to sue the city for making an unreasonable law? I know the circumstances were different but wasn't a law in Seattle(?) voided that way?
 
The reason I used the terms I did was that I know for a fact these are the images that come into minds of many people whenever they confront a young African American man. (I know the article did not specify race, but I dare someone to find a white Kadeem Johnson.) I know this from my own forty plus years of life as a black man.

I know that people will quote stats about the level of felons among African Americans. I think that between the ages of 18-35, the percentage of felons is 1/3. Although that is high percentage, the facts remains that 67% in this age group are not felons. I believe that part of the reason why young black men are convicted at such a high rate is that when often, basically decent young men do not get the benefit of the doubt when they do something stupid because they "fit the profile". Because of these types of stereotypes, I know many African Americans who will not carry even the wimpiest SAK because they fear being seen as thug. As a person who learned early in life the utility of knives, I find this to be a terrible situation. More importantly for knife lovers, a population that is scared to carry knives will be comfortable supporting politicians who come out against knives. (Remember that anti-knife politicians can be both on the left and right, even George W. Bush and gun rights supporting John Ashcroft made no attempt to save knife rights after the 9/11 tragedy.)

As for the young man in the article being a punk because he had a knife in his shoe, I guess those of us who carry in the waistband or who have Concealex rigs are punks with money. As I said earlier, he did something wrong, and it was stupid. He got what was coming to him for his bad judgement, he was arrested and suffered humiliation and embarrassment. If he is the quality student that the article indicates, the whole experience probably scared the crap out of him, and who will probably be scared to take a toothpick to the airport in the future. At one level, that would appropriate, but at another level, I wish he could get on the net and read BF. Then he could learn something about the law and the proper way to carry a knife or how or when to carry. That would be better than developing a knee reaction that "knife=bad."
 
As for the young man telling the cops he lived in a bad neighborhood, they did arrest him and I am sure that the police can easily check his record and check with the police in Boston or Pittsburgh to see if he told the truth. Once again, that may be why the article was fairly sympathetic. The police, took him in, checked his story, and saw that it was true, it just sounds like basic investigatory work to me.
 
According to the latest issue of Knife World, the law is for the city of Boston alone. I guess the situation like Boston is now like the one in Chicago, where there will be highly restrictive laws that don't really affect the crime rate. For instance, Chicago was recently found to lead the nation in murders.
 
Originally posted by anthony cheeseboro
The reason I used the terms I did was that I know for a fact these are the images that come into minds of many people whenever they confront a young African American man.
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So now you're bringing race into it! You jump all over me for calling him a punk, and you're throwing around words like "gang member", "hardened criminal", and now race! You must know I'm right or you wouldn't resort to this kind of nonsense.

I know that people will quote stats about the level of felons among African Americans.
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WRONG AGAIN! Who quoted stats about African Americans? YOU! And who else? Nobody.

As for the young man in the article being a punk because he had a knife in his shoe, I guess those of us who carry in the waistband or who have Concealex rigs are punks with money.
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Wrong again. Try saying something intelligent. He is a punk because he knowingly tried to smuggle a knife onto a plane in his shoe, and deliberately lied to security guards. Did you forget those extenuating circumstances.

Yep, you're full of scary words and racial comments. Too bad you have such a hard time admitting that anyone trying to smuggle weapons onto a plane and lying to security guards is a punk. Do you think that maybe it's people like you that make the sheeple afraid of knife knuts?
 
I feel that race is a legitimate aspect of this story. If you do not so be it. My difference of opinion from you does not make my statements unintelligent or irresponsible. You keep saying that I said something, not you. So what, I am have a right to express my opinions just like you do. If you think the man is a punk, that is your opinion. I think he might have just made a very foolish mistake. We have right to disagree. Once again, I am not trying to put words into your mouth, I am stating my opinion about an issue over which we disagree. I don't care if you agree with me or not, I do believe in freedom of speech. At the same time, if I introduce topics that you didn't mention, it's because I feel the issues are relevant. We all have the right to read and interpret issues on threads as we see fit.
 
Great response Anthony. I agree, the kid made a terrible and stupid mistake. Calling him names does not accomplish anything. However, the real tragedy is that he felt the need to hide the knife at all, and lied about it when caught. He crossed the line. I don't know if that makes him a 'punk' or not. Stupid, yes. Punk?

Tone it down a little hd2K, will ya? You are right about this argument becoming silly.

What would you call the forumite who recently discovered he had gone through several security screens while carrying a Large Sebbie? Would he also be a 'punk' if this accidentally carried knife had been discovered?

The hysteria over knives on airplanes is what is silly. I don't think the public is any safer by banning the carry of perfectly normal small Tools on an airplane. It used to be allowable to carry up to a four inch bladed folder. That is plenty of knife to do a lot of damage, but it was never a problem before. It is ironic that the terrorists limited their choice of weapons to 'boxcutters', when they could have legally carried some real knives with them on the plane.

Para
 
I'm glad you got my point Para. I'm not defending what this kid did. He deserved to get arrested, however, I'm uncomfortable about calling someone a punk unless I have a pretty idea about a person's history.
 
gadgetman, first of all "grand" theft is, as I recall, theft of an item worth over $1000.

Secondly, mostly the "confiscation" is not explicit - the deal is they will not let you on the plane with your posession. You don't have to give it to them (even if it's illegal and he's a real cop - he should be arresting you and pressing a charge, not pocketing your property), but they just won't let you on with it. What do you do?
- throw it away
- mail it home
- put in a checked bag
- give it to your new "friend" the security guard
 
hd2k_va we are going to have to agree to disagree. You seem comfortable with the judgment you have made and the opinion of others is not about to change your mind. When all is said and done, it does not really matter what we think of what this fella has done. Hopefully he will learn from this and he will still be able to help the kids he works with.
 
Originally posted by RH
gadgetman, first of all "grand" theft is, as I recall, theft of an item worth over $1000.

Secondly, mostly the "confiscation" is not explicit - the deal is they will not let you on the plane with your posession. You don't have to give it to them (even if it's illegal and he's a real cop - he should be arresting you and pressing a charge, not pocketing your property), but they just won't let you on with it. What do you do?
- throw it away
- mail it home
- put in a checked bag
- give it to your new "friend" the security guard
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You're right...Since I posted I talked to a friend of mine who is a lawyer.(Yes there are some honest lawyers.:D ) He said that if the item was actually confiscated it would be theft by taking or a similiar theft charge in Georgia. He also said that someone had actually filed charges based on one of these incidents but the trial hasn't come up yet.

It also seems that the range of charges for carrying a knife on a plane are not the same as for a gun. Apparently the Federal government hasn't changed the weapons laws so the offenders are being charged with other crimes. Still a bad idea to get caught but kind of interesting. I'm not defending what this kid did either. We should be trying to change the laws not violate them and make it appear that all knife people are just as we are often represented.
 
It is a shame to see the race card brought into this equation. I was hoping that 9-11-01 had caused people to regard themselves (and others) as Americans. Period. No pre-requisites. No hyphens.

Anthony,

You were doing just fine making your point against the assumption that this guy was a "punk" without introducing race. In my judgment, a poor , or rich, white ( red, yellow or tan) kid could have made the same mistake. (IMHO, Kadeem Johnson's mistake was thinking he could get away with something: Hiding a knife in your shoe and lying about it is not a "mistake". It is an overt act.) At 23, he is young and maybe somewhat inexperienced... But any American could have made that same "mistake". Race had nothing to do with his actions. If people assumed he was black because of his name, and applied their own prejudices; That is their problem! No need to add a label (African American) to this kid.

As much as I didn't like hd2k_va's "tone" in this posts (I, also, made the assumption he was using "punk" to mean "gangster or hoodlum"... ), I have to admit there is a {very slim} chance that he actually had a better command of the english language than I did. Here is what Webster's Unabridged hit me with:

Michael
 

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Race and ethnicity are a fact of life and I have no problem discussing these issues. I am an American and anybody who sees me knows that I am black. I know for a fact that race and perceptions of race affect the way we see each other whether some of us care to admit or not. Just look at the controversy of the Arab American Secret Service Agent who was removed from a plane last week. The same people who tell me I should not mention race surely mention race themselves on occassion whether they admit to me or not. You may not think that race was relevant to the kid who was arrested, I think it may have been, I don't know and neither do you.
 
I would like to clarify my last post. I think that race may been in a factor in this kid's apparent distrust of the authority figures. If he is from an inner city neighborhood, he may have come up not expecting any breaks from the police. This is pure speculation on my part, I was not there and I don't know the kid. In all fairness, to the airport security, they treated him fairly from what I can see and charged far more lightly than they could have.
 
I started to follow this thread believing it dealt with an IDIOT trying to sneak a knife onto a Commercial aircraft in Defiance of the BIGASS signs that say something to the effect of [I am taking poetic license]:"If you attempt to sneak a knife on an airplane, you shall go to jail" of course the sign has alot of legal-ese, but if you enter an airport and walk up to security with it, the LAW now says that it can be taken as contraband and done with as the government wishes. ESPECIALLY AT LOGAN...REMEMBER????????

But when did this thread turn to RACE? The Most threatened RACE currently in this country are those of ARABIAN desent. Put a white man, a Black Man and a Pakastani man on a bench in an airport and wanna bet who gets stared and gawked at the most?

After 09-11, this country has changed it's racial bias. But this issue has to do with a PUNK kid trying to sneak a knife onto a commercial aircraft in defiance of the LAW. He lied twice and this act in totality makes him a PUNK. His RACE played no role. I am amazed, considering how PARANOID this country has become concerning AIR TRAVEL, to think anyone can find sympathy for a young college age kid who SHOULD be fully aware of LOGAN Airport's serious involvement with 09-11, their many breaches of security protocol since, and how tightly they NOW control things now, And then attempt to sneak a folder on a plane, by secreting it in a SNEAKER??? What a PUNK!!!!!

Should he go to jail? NAH, Just pay back the $10,000 it probably cost us taxpayers to deal with his stupidity. AND STUPID is an UNDERSTATEMENT!!! This is a COMMISSION, not an Ommission:mad: :mad:
 
With the little we all seem to know about this incident, along with the possibility of some inaccuracies in the reports, I would just like to point out that ya'll have been arguing mostly about SPECULATION.

Punk? Not punk? Light skinned? Dark skinned?

It's hard for most of us to imagine why someone would hide a knife that size in his shoe. Especially after the "shoebomber" incident.

But he did, and it seems he's getting off light.

FWIW, I'm mostly with Anthony on this. Not that others were totally "out there."

To me, the biggest PUNKS are the politically powerful, privelaged, mostly rich/white/male governmental bureaucrats who decided to make pocketknives, nailclippers, etc. verboten. THEY should be the ones who get strapped into harnesses and given body cavity searches by horny S&M security professionals.

And that's just to get into their FAA offices! :)

They don't trust ME? Well then I DON'T TRUST THEM.

Out of a planeful of passengers, not even 10% could be terrs. The rest of the passengers can handle that, especially if they are told what to look for, what to do, and know that their government is behind them all the way. The passengers on the "shoebomber" flight did not overreact. Give folks direction, and most importantly, some responsibility and respect, instead of treating us as animals to be herded around and poked and prodded, etc.

There's more than enough time for simple charts on use of force, laws of self-defense, and how to respond to in-flight emergencies during basic security checks in the airport. Mainly it will be "follow the directions of the flight crew." Plus a few emergencies when passengers should act immediately on their own volition (attack on flight crew, someone lighting a fuse, etc.).

There: In-flight security done cheaply and effectively, and gaining the support and good will of all passengers instead of demeaning them.

The government should be concentrating on cockpit door reinforcement, baggage and carry-on/passenger explosives detection and intelligence to prevent terrorist acts.

I was surprised at the "shoe" incident, but do you really think the terrs will try an airliner hijacking again? I doubt it. I look for the next attack to be somewhere completely different.

Karl
 
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