Stuff moves

Interestingly, some of the ivory handles on original San Francisco knives from Michael Price and Will & Finck. etc have remained in relatively good condition over the years. Some do have cracks but I have seen photos of others with no, or very few cracks. I'm assuming some of these were not too well cared for. Not too shabby after 100+ years.
Bob
 
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X carpenter here. Depending on what time of year you put up crown molding. Winter it will already be shrunk. Summer here in Tennessee is brutal humid. Wood installed in summer here will in most cases shrink in winter and crack the painters caulking. I have seen contractors have the painter paint both sides of the moldings before instalation to try and inhibit this problem with humidity. Of course houses are climate controled in a sense but it still happens.

I suppose that is the same for natural materials for knife handles. I most ceartainly believe it is the humidty content or lack of it then the change of it that makes the scales move. Nice post Mark.

When building furniture I always try to keep the grain all going the same way. IE horizantal grain, and vertical grain. I made a blanket chest for my wife and hand dovetailed everyting. Made every piece of that chest from kiln dried cherry. All grain is horizontal from top to bottom. That way when expansion takes place the only thing that happens is the chest will expand and contract up and down with the seasons. So far every joint looks like the day I put it together. But I hand cut all those dovetails, and when I put the chest together, I thought it would blow up when I was clamping up after glueing, cause the joinery was so tight.

Not about knives I know but the same principal with expansion and contraction. I have never made a knife but the best thing I saw on this thread is what someone said about putting some kind of expansion material around pins.

My only thought about knife scales that have no bolsters. Maybe when you drill the spine for pining create a sliding slot. Like I said I know nothing about knife making. But maybe the material pined would slide with the pins on a sliding slot. Do not know if that would be practical for trying to make the fit tight feeling at all.

Just thinking. I get into trouble trying that sometime.

Thanks for the post I can understand Mark.
 
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Starkman1 said:
Interestingly, some of the ivory handles on original San Francisco knives from Michael Price and Will & Finck. etc have remained in relatively good condition over the years. Some do have cracks but I have seen photos of others with no, or very few cracks. I'm assuming some of these were not too well cared for. Not too shabby after 100+ years.
Bob
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I think that for the most part, people back then knew how to take care of things better, I would hate to see what would happen if one of them was put in a dish washer today :eek::eek:. After fifty years or so of seasoning the material has worked out the inner stresses so they are probably safe. :D I think that one of the worst things you can do is work ivory too warm with power tools, sanding especially and then fill it completely with epoxy, back before the days of power and epoxy we didn't do that. Thanks Mark
 
nativecajun57 said:
X carpenter here. Depending on what time of year you put up crown molding. Winter it will already be shrunk. Summer here in Tennessee is brutal humid. Wood installed in summer here will in most cases shrink in winter and crack the painters caulking. I have seen contractors have the painter paint both sides of the moldings before instalation to try and inhibit this problem with humidity. Of course houses are climate controled in a sense but it still happens.

I suppose that is the same for natural materials for knife handles. I most ceartainly believe it is the humidty content or lack of it then the change of it that makes the scales move. Nice post Mark.

When building furniture I always try to keep the grain all going the same way. IE horizantal grain, and vertical grain. I made a blanket chest for my wife and hand dovetailed everyting. Made every piece of that chest from kiln dried cherry. All grain is horizontal from top to bottom. That way when expansion takes place the only thing that happens is the chest will expand and contract up and down with the seasons. So far every joint looks like the day I put it together. But I hand cut all those dovetails, and when I put the chest together, I thought it would blow up when I was clamping up after glueing, cause the joinery was so tight.

Not about knives I know but the same principal with expansion and contraction. I have never made a knife but the best thing I saw on this thread is what someone said about putting some kind of expansion material around pins.

My only thought about knife scales that have no bolsters. Maybe when you drill the spine for pining create a sliding slot. Like I said I know nothing about knife making. But maybe the material pined would slide with the pins on a sliding slot. Do not know if that would be practical for trying to make the fit tight feeling at all.

Just thinking. I get into trouble trying that sometime.

Thanks for the post I can understand Mark.
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Yep. Thanks X carpenter
 
If you buy ivory, you take the risk of shrinkage. A maker with a long time reputation of handling in ivory, taking care to not let it get too hot, to keep it properly maintained, aging it or using very old ivory, will help your odds. Also being aware of the climate it was made in versus the climate it will be stored in.

Among vintage knife collectors it is easy to pick a knife collection out that has been stored in Florida, as it will often have a lot of rust specks from the environment. Same way with ivory.

I visited Lloyd McConnell's shop in Odessa, Texas a few years ago. I was heading west to the Great Western Show and stopped in to have lunch with him, showed him a knife of his I had, and he wasn't happy with how it was locking, so at his insistence I followed him back to his shop so he could rework it while I waited. This was impressive in itself, as was the cleanest shop I've ever seen. He had his hand material, including ivory, oiled and wrapped in saran wrap. I venture that Lloyd's ivory handled knives will stand the test.

I've rarely had problems with stag. Horn knives for me, especially folders, tend to pull and warp rather than crack. And I've had several pieces of buffalo horn handled knives get bugs in them and eat themselves away.

But climate and humidity expansion and contraction does not confine itself to just handle material. I once owned a D. E. Henry ivory folder button lock that had been made on tolerances so close that it worked well in the Texas area where it was assembled, and would stick at home here in Tennessee. I ended up selling it in Texas.

I love ivory on knife handles, I love the look, and the feel. But I also tell people that an ivory handled knife is a lot like an unfaithful wife, she may be nice to look at and touch--but there is a good chance the b---ch is gonna break your heart sooner or later. Just the risk you run for the pleasure involved.
 
TennKnifeman said:
If you buy ivory, you take the risk of shrinkage. A maker with a long time reputation of handling in ivory, taking care to not let it get too hot, to keep it properly maintained, aging it or using very old ivory, will help your odds. Also being aware of the climate it was made in versus the climate it will be stored in.

Among vintage knife collectors it is easy to pick a knife collection out that has been stored in Florida, as it will often have a lot of rust specks from the environment. Same way with ivory.

I visited Lloyd McConnell's shop in Odessa, Texas a few years ago. I was heading west to the Great Western Show and stopped in to have lunch with him, showed him a knife of his I had, and he wasn't happy with how it was locking, so at his insistence I followed him back to his shop so he could rework it while I waited. This was impressive in itself, as was the cleanest shop I've ever seen. He had his hand material, including ivory, oiled and wrapped in saran wrap. I venture that Lloyd's ivory handled knives will stand the test.

I've rarely had problems with stag. Horn knives for me, especially folders, tend to pull and warp rather than crack. And I've had several pieces of buffalo horn handled knives get bugs in them and eat themselves away.

But climate and humidity expansion and contraction does not confine itself to just handle material. I once owned a D. E. Henry ivory folder button lock that had been made on tolerances so close that it worked well in the Texas area where it was assembled, and would stick at home here in Tennessee. I ended up selling it in Texas.

I love ivory on knife handles, I love the look, and the feel. But I also tell people that an ivory handled knife is a lot like an unfaithful wife, she may be nice to look at and touch--but there is a good chance the b---ch is gonna break your heart sooner or later. Just the risk you run for the pleasure involved.
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Interesting stuff, thanks
 
Mark,

This has been a great thread. It's nice to hear how natural materials react to varied climates. I guess that I have been fortunate in that I've only had three handles crack out of several thousand knives (one ivory, one wood, & one stag). I know that two were cracked after setting close to a furnace/ air conditioning vent. The other is suspect but I would suspect something similiar.

I use a fair amount of ivory and have never had any stabilized but would like to hear from those that have and what results they have had. (Since I use mainly fossil ivory, I have been reluctant to stabilize it.)

Gary
 
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