Stun Guns....Again

tedwca said:
...some people are deathly afraid of electricity and will flop around and fall down because that is what they are conditioned to do...

I don't think so.
The first time I got zapped, I didn't even see it coming.
I went from standing on my feet to sitting on my butt, and had no idea what had happened.

Furthermore, I find the blister thing hard to understand.
Why would a person have blisters from a stun gun or baton?

Would a person's shoes have anything to do with it, in terms of grounding?
I ask this because of an experience I had in Gollnick's hometown, Sherwood, some forty years ago.
I tried to climb over an electric fence during a rainstorm and when I touched the electric wire it literally knocked me backwards.
Again, I didn't recognize the fence as electrified until afterwards.
I wonder what values of volts, amps and watts electric fences and stun guns produce.
 
i know ive rubbed up against an electric fence or 2 and they never knocked me backwards, oh i knew something was up i will grant ya that, but it didnt actually move me backwards or anything, am sure some fences have more/less amps than others though,

and what about the old shock rods made for controlling cattle we used to play with those when we were kids, "hot shots" IIRC. they sting more than a stun gun imho.

i could see some blistering from the heat from the electricity if it was held on the same spot for a while, but i do mean "a while" probably a minute?
 
In electrical engineering, we have a little saying, "It's the volts that jolt and the mils that kill." Mils is shorthand for miliamperes of current. In general, it takes about 20mA to kill someone. So, as long as you keep the current below about 20mA, you can do just about whatevery you want with the voltage. But we have another little saying -- well, it's more of a law of physics than a saying -- E=IR. E is voltage (it used to be called Electromotive force from whence the E cometh). R is resistance. And I is current (and we use the letter I for current as a barrier to entry into the profession). Anyway, the point is that if R is fixed, the E and I have a very clear relationship and there is an easily-calculated maximum voltage you can use. There is actually a standard for resistance of the body (well, several depending on application) but, as I recall, the one used for safety is 5.6Kohms. E=IR, if I < 20mA and R=5.6Kohms, then V < 112V. And it is no accident that standard household electrical voltage in America is 110V. But this also means that 100KV stun guns are three orders of magnitude above fatal. The answer is that a stun gun includes circuitry that automatically lowers the voltage as current increases. In fact, most stun guns -- and electric fence -- apply a maximum current of only a few microamps, three orders of magnitude below what is generally considered fatal. This explains Mr. tedwca's experience. By applying the device very directly, he caused the lowest R thus causing the gun to apply it's lowest voltage, prehaps just a few Volts. Remember, it's the Volts that jolt.

As for the blisters, they were caused by local heating.
 
Gollnick said:
In electrical engineering, we have a little saying, "It's the volts that jolt and the mils that kill." Mils is shorthand for miliamperes of current. In general, it takes about 20mA to kill someone. So, as long as you keep the current below about 20mA, you can do just about whatevery you want with the voltage. But we have another little saying -- well, it's more of a law of physics than a saying -- E=IR. E is voltage (it used to be called Electromotive force from whence the E cometh). R is resistance. And I is current (and we use the letter I for current as a barrier to entry into the profession). Anyway, the point is that if R is fixed, the E and I have a very clear relationship and there is an easily-calculated maximum voltage you can use. There is actually a standard for resistance of the body (well, several depending on application) but, as I recall, the one used for safety is 5.6Kohms. E=IR, if I < 20mA and R=5.6Kohms, then V < 112V. And it is no accident that standard household electrical voltage in America is 110V. But this also means that 100KV stun guns are three orders of magnitude above fatal. The answer is that a stun gun includes circuitry that automatically lowers the voltage as current increases. In fact, most stun guns -- and electric fence -- apply a maximum current of only a few microamps, three orders of magnitude below what is generally considered fatal. This explains Mr. tedwca's experience. By applying the device very directly, he caused the lowest R thus causing the gun to apply it's lowest voltage, prehaps just a few Volts. Remember, it's the Volts that jolt.

As for the blisters, they were caused by local heating.

Does this mean that its very easy for someone to manufacture lethal stun guns?

So why hasn't anyone done that before?

That would be the ultimate in close range self defense. One bzzt of 20 millamperes and the bad guy is dead.
 
InspectorTrue said:
Does this mean that its very easy for someone to manufacture lethal stun guns?

So why hasn't anyone done that before?

That would be the ultimate in close range self defense. One bzzt of 20 millamperes and the bad guy is dead.

20mA is not an absolute number. It's just a rule-of-thumb we use for safety engineering purposes. Death by electrocution is a fascinating subject. I have a friend who is a consulting engineer who makes his living this way (not by electrocuting people, but by investigating accidental electrocutions mostly for insurance companies or lawyers). He sometimes bounces ideas off of me.

Recently, a PGE lineman lived through a 75KV hit with several hundred Amps available. He lost the use of all limbs, but he lived.

On the other hand, I noted that the standard household Voltage in America is 110V which should be non-fatal and yet there are fatal incidents involving it not to uncommonly.

So, guaranteeing fatality is very difficult. Executioners who use electricity go to elaborate means to assue it.

Also, if the weapon's user were to be touching his target, he could become part of the circuit himself.
 
$1,000 Reward Offered

For information leading to the arrest and conviction of the driver of the pickup truck involved in the following flagrant action of violence against a local bay area cyclist.

Cyclist Run Off Of Road
A Monte Vista Velo (MVV) club cyclist was injured after being run off of the road by a large Dodge Ram pickup truck while descending on Page Mill Rd. The incident happened on Saturday, March 25th around 11:00am and the driver of the truck tried to run many other club members off the road as they road single file down the hill. The altercation was a deliberate act by the driver of the truck to send a message to all bay area cyclist that they do not belong on the public roads.

The Injured Rider

The MVV rider suffered a class 1 AC separation of the left shoulder and two broken teeth. He is recovering quickly and has returned to riding with the club.

The injured rider is 51 years old, married and father of 4. He is an accomplished cyclist with over 25 years of competitive riding experience. He is also a successful businessman holding Vice President of Engineering positions at Sun, Kazeon and Oracle Corporation.

The bay area is one of the most cycling friendly places I have ever lived in. I've never see anything that compares to this level of aggression and willingness to inflict harm. My hope is that we can find the person that did this before they hurt or kill someone else.

Description of the Truck

Late model full sized black Dodge Ram Pickup with black bumpers

Extended cab with dark tinted windows

"Let's Rodeo" bumper sticker on left rear bumper. 12"x4" black letters on white background.

Dark tool box behind the driver's window.

License #6L6????

If you spot the truck matching this description, please get a full license plate # and report it to the Palo Alto Police Department at the number below.

Contact Information
Kim Collet
Palo Alto Police Department
650-329-2406
Case #: 06-084-0054

Everyone must do their part to keep California roads safe for auto, motorcycles, cyclists and pedestrians alike.
 
BTW before i forget, stuns guns ( like the one i have, made and bought in taiwan, the brand is titan) are kind of hard to "deploy" quickly. That's why i stopped carrying mine.

But of course, if you are used to deploying guns and knives, it may easy for you.
 
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