Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! a Busse Beat Down of Extrordinary Magnitude

Ok, now that I finally got the videos and pics out of the way I can finally sit down and think about everything that happened today.

1) Edge geometry is still king so long as said geometry is NOT compromised by the material being cut. In other words the edges should be thin and efficient but yet not so thin that it would roll when being used to chop vigorously.

2) Weight definitely adds alot of momentum to the swings. I have noticed a few times today where the larger heavy blades like the FFBM and the FBMLE would just continue to dig deeper into the wood even when my hand and arm is already retracting back ready for the next swing. I also noticed a few times that the shear mass and power of the heavyweights just breaks the wood apart internally. For instance, on my last chop with the FBMLE the piece of 2X4 just literally gave out without having to be cut. Most likely it is because the previous blows have already loosened and destroyed the wood fibers.

3) Comfort and fit was a major factor for me. Large handles like the E handles made it hard for me to hang on to the blade after a few power chops. I find myself having to reposition my grip every few chops. This not only kills time but also breaks the rhythm, timing and momentum. I could have done better with with the ZTBM had the handles fit me better.

4) Balance of blade also plays a big role in chopping performance. Obviously the more blade heavy knives will out chop more neutral balanced ones. However, balance is not quite as critical as edge geometry. A heavy knife has lots of momentum. A weighted forward heavy knife can just generate more momentum with the same weight.

The knives that stood out today all had nice edge geometries and excelled in one or more of the the 4 attributes.!

FFBM Full Convexed Edge = Superb Edge Geometry, Super Heavy, Very Comfortable, and Extremely blade heavy. It excelled in nearly all 4 attributes.

FABM = Superb Edge Geometry, Lightweight, Very Comfortable, Moderately blade heavy.

Buxton Custom Forged 52100 = Extreme Edge Geometry, Very Lightweight, Very Comfortable, and Moderately blade heavy.

This was Jim's answer to my FABM and it put up a helluva impressive chopping performance.

Convexed CGFBM = Superb Edge Geometry, Heavy, Very Comfortable, Very Blade Heavy.

This one put up a quite a impressive chopping performance that surprised me quite a bit.

Which one is the best chopper and which one would I pick? I am very partial to the FABM because it is very lightweight yet can still hang with the massive big boys. We are not talking just a little lighter but a significant weight difference that is probably something close to half the weight of the big boys. However, I must admit that the Full Convexed FFBM is the the best chopper on a chop per chop basis.

Time to go to bed now.... Will post more tomorrow.
 
Very cool guys!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:
Looks like you all had a lot of fun... I would have hated to be a 2x4 in your neck of the woods on Sunday. :eek: :D

Thanks for the great write ups, videos, and comparisons. :cool:

 
gimmejr said:
Oh the humanity, what did those 2x4s ever do to you guys? Looks like Hogwash really had something against his 2x4.
Looks like you guys had fun to bad I had to work today, hopefully next time.
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It's too bad you didn't send your girlfriend. I was ready with my two hog tags.

My chopping isn't that great. I'm out of shape, my normal workout is pushing a mouse. I also need to learn a lot of technique. Some times the stars allign and I get a good chop, then the next chop is weak. I have to figure out how to get more good chops so I don't wear myself out without making some chips.
 
Excellent videos and write-ups folks. Educational and fun all at the same time. Thanks! :thumbup:
 
Hogwash said:
It's too bad you didn't send your girlfriend. I was ready with my two hog tags.

My chopping isn't that great. I'm out of shape, my normal workout is pushing a mouse. I also need to learn a lot of technique. Some times the stars allign and I get a good chop, then the next chop is weak. I have to figure out how to get more good chops so I don't wear myself out without making some chips.
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I thought you did very well with that convexed Fatty in the very beginning. Towards the end when fatigue set in was a whole different story. We did a whole bunch of chopping in a very compressed time frame of approximately 30-40 mins. A lot of other takes where we wasted horrendous amounts of energy on suboptimal choppers were not shown. Some of it was pretty darn hilarious.

Yeah, I also had my 2 Skeleton Keys just in case :D
 
Well she was working so she wouldnt have been able to show either.

I was getting tired just looking at you guys chopping.
 
gimmejr said:
Well she was working so she wouldnt have been able to show either.

I was getting tired just looking at you guys chopping.
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Tired??? Damn I had so much fun yesterday that I almost forgot that I was tired. Seriously, I did get winded a couple of times. My right wrist, arm, and shoulder is kinda sore today :o
 
Looks like you all had a great time!

I was curious on your testing of the DogFather. It looked like Dan had trouble getting into a rhythm with it. Was the DogFather rolling in hand at impact? Was the DogFather "in the hunt" or way back in the pack? On paper it looks like an excellent chopper.

Also, if you could pick a perfect handle what would it be? Micarta, G10 or res-C? Would you go with magnum or flat scales?
 
That would be me with the Dogfather. I didn't think it did too shabby. This was towards the end of the chopping session so I guess fatigue may have set in some. One problem I did have with it was that it didn't bite deep enough into the wood. Keep in mind that this is a brand spanking new bone stock DF with no edge touchup. I am sure a nice convex edge would have increased its potential by about at least 30-40%. It was actually very very comfortable for me and was very weight forward. The respirene-C handles were easily the most comfortable for me. This knife has a whole lot of potential. Put on a nice edge and it can easily hang with the big boys.

It just doesn't look like it did too well because it was being compared against some highly customized and modified stuff with optimized edge geometry.

Myself I prefer Micarta with Standard Handles or Respirene-C for the big choppers. Comfort wise the Respirene-C was best for me. It just doesn't look as nice as Micarta that is all ;)
 
Good feedback.

As for putting on a good convex edge for that optimal edge geometry, where would you send me for a tutorial/resource on doing this right?
 
Just out of curiosity, and forgive me if you have been asked before, but how are you convexing your blades? Slack belt, or by hand? Thanks Ban!

-Dan

Edit: Looks like Voxhog was posting at the same time I was. :)
 
I don't know how knives get sharp.

I'm so bad at sharpening that when one gets dull I switch knives.

But if I take a dull knife over to Ban's place and I start working on a little roll with a steel, he'll feel sorry for me and sharpen it.

It's not what you know, it's who you know.

The convexing stuff is black magic to me.
 
MD13 said:
Just out of curiosity, and forgive me if you have been asked before, but how are you convexing your blades? Slack belt, or by hand? Thanks Ban!

-Dan

Edit: Looks like Voxhog was posting at the same time I was. :)
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Just do a search here it has been brought up before. Or Justabuyer can chime in here and show us his method.

I use a semi convexed edge on my knives. I normally sharpen them to V with a belt then use sandpaper+leather to convex the final edge followed by a power strop with a leather wheel to screaming sharp hybrid edge.

Dan's idea of sharpening is dinging up the edge until I can't stand it anymore and end up sharpening it for him because it bugs me ;)
 
Ban said:
I use a semi convexed edge on my knives. I normally sharpen them to V with a belt then use sandpaper+leather to convex the final edge followed by a power strop with a leather wheel to screaming sharp hybrid edge.

Dan's idea of sharpening is dinging up the edge until I can't stand it anymore and end up to sharpen it for him because it bugs me ;)
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Hehe. :D Thanks Ban. I was just curious if you were doing it by hand or not. I haven't gotten good enough to take a knife to a belt for fear of doing more harm than good, but I'm pretty good using sandpaper and strops. I was lokoing for the magical and elusive "quick" way to do it. :D:thumbup:

-Dan
 
The way I do it probably takes me about 5 mins to put a full edge on a knife. Slightly longer for the BM sized blades.

If you don't want to use a belt to do the intial material hogging then go with a XXCoarse DMT diamond hone. I have one an it cuts really damn fast. But I mainly use it nowadays to flatten out my waterstones. Jim also raves about it.

I use the waterstones every once in a while when I feel like sitting down and doing some hand sharpening. Also, use them quite a bit for my kitchen knives at home.

I am quite lazy these days so I use the quickest method that I know for most of my sharpening. :D
 
DMT stones are awesome. I have a XXC, C, F, EF that I use quite a bit. I think I do an edge similar to you, where I reprofile using the stones, then sandpaper to convex, and then strop. I have an Edge Pro and it's great, but I barely ever use it because of the setup involved.

-Dan
 
I will talk about how I do it again here in a few days. I am processing information and taking some caliper measurements try to quantify how thin you can take INFI and Still get a edge that will not collapse and roll under HARD chopping on tough wood. It is possible to go to thin... :o
 
Justabuyer said:
Next was a sleeper knife. OILMAN sold me Swamp rat Ratwieler at a good price because he could not get a good edge on it. I guess he sent it off to Swamp Rat and they did a very half-assed job putting a edge on it. But it was a edge. So before todays party I did a fare amount of work on it. I set the edge thinner, restored the tip and added a swedge. I had polished the edge all the way up to 2000 grit with a slight convex.
Here is the thing, it chopped pretty damn good and took no edge damage at all. Seriously none...zip Seemed to hold better than INFI. No kidding. This is a pretty darn good mid sized knife.
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Sssshhhhh... us RATweiler users try not to let that sort of thing get out! ;)
 
Great vids:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks for taking the time to record your efforts and share them with us:cool::cool:
 
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