Super Glue. Requim for the Masses

well, i use the aforementioned method all the time...but we gotta be safe...what does that stuff do in your blood???? and what does it do when it gets to your brain....as a product of the 60s and a tour of southeast asia can attest....it has made no difference for me...but you young guys should be careful.

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
My Dad has been using super glue to glue his false teeth back into his bridge for years. He's still kicking so I guess it isn't too bad!
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Bill, interesting about the use of super glue. I should buy a couple to keep on hand for that occasion, but I haven't been seriously bitten yet by any of my dozen or so knives yet (guess they don't love me
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)

BTW, this makes your third Tim Wegner Jr, right?

My wife, who tolerates my recent knife binges, cut herself in the same way with my Wegner Jr, tho not as deep. I gave her my small Kershaw linerlock so she's familiar enough with linerlocks in general, but the differences in blade weight and pivot action threw her off to the tune of a cut (not requiring stitches...or none that she'd admit to needing).
 
Last Friday, my girlfriend managed to give herself a concussion with a heavy glass jar. The hospital used the medical Super Glue to seal her wound. It worked great.

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Knowledge without understanding is knowledge wasted.
Understanding without knowledge is a rare gift - but not an impossibility.
For the impossible is always possible through faith. - Bathroom graffiti, gas station, Grey, TN, Dec, 1988

AKTI Member #A000831


 
I sure learned a lot about Super Glue.
Doc Welch and DC made the suggestion (as bald1 remembers) right after I cut the #@*& out of my right hand with my small Sebenza.
I complained about how difficult it was to suture myself with my retarded left hand.
I forgot about the part that the glue should only be placed on the edge of the wound, so I got a good dose of cyanide. The wound is a flap of skin that occupies 80% of the tip of the right thumb. It was a bleeder and I had to get back to work. I put a drop right under the flap of skin and pressed it shut.
The only trouble I'm now having is that the tip of my thumb has a hard spot. No pain or infection, but the wound effects my ability to play with my manual folders
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I'll just carry the VBM-UDT until I get fully healed.
I must know Tom Mayo as I was also a child of the 60's.
I put FAR worse substances in my body than Super Glue or Tuf-Cloth and seem to be OK these days.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm going to the Vet and get some doggy Super Glue for the next cut.
Seems to work out that I get semi-annual slices. I'm usually discreet (or embarrased) in admitting the wound to others. "Duh, I cut myself with another knife" is embarrasing, but you all understand.
Bill
 
If you look at the label on hardware store Super Glue/Crazy Glue it says ethyl-2-cyanoacrylate.

The medical grade stuff is called Histoacryl and is butyl-2-cyanoacrylate. It's been approved and used for quite some time in Europe and Canada as an alternative to sutures.

The ethyl-2 variety produces more heat during polymerization, causes an acute inflammatory reaction, and results in tissue necrosis. Translation - gets hot, causes inflammation, and results in tissue death.

Butyl-2 is favored since it produces less inflammation and no necrosis. I vaguely recall that there was a brand of hardware grade Super Glue that was of the butyl variety.

Joel



[This message has been edited by Joel McNamara (edited 16 September 1999).]
 
Jeez; I leave you guys alone for a while, and look at what you get into!!

First; be aware that hand lacerations (hereafter 'lacs,') are very deceptive. They all look alike, but some conceal damage to important structures (tendons, tendon sheaths, nerves, joint capsules, etc.). That is one of the advantages of using a local anesthetic; you can open up the lac and see if anything is damaged. Or if there is a foreign body in it. Plus, you can adequately cleanse the wound with a dilute (about 10%) aqueous solution of Betadine. Obviously, you can do none of these things in the field. A noted hand surgeon had this to say: 'The definition of a minor hand lac is one on someone else's hand.'

Second, the glue is simply not strong enough to use on the hand. Read the post by Mike; it says that explicitly. Heck, a lot of times kids would have pulled out half the stitches in their finger by the time of suture removal.

Third, there is no free cyanide in the super glue. When bound into a molecule in the way it is in super glue, the cyano moeity is harmless; heck, each and every one of us have cyanocobalamin in us; that is vitamin B-12. So, don't worry about being poisoned.

Fourth, with lacs that involve injury to avascular structures (things that don't have a good blood supply; tendons, tendon sheaths, joint capsules), anesthesia, followed by profuse irrigation of the wound, followed by repair to the structure, followed by proper splinting and parenteral (IM or IV) antibiotics followed by oral antibiotics are absolutely necessary. Remember, since you can't adequately explore the lac if it isn't numbed up, you DON'T know if this type of damage is present.

Fifth; how about your tetanus shot? To give you an idea of how seemingly insignificant an injury can cause this, I saw in 20 years in the ER only one case of tetanus. The injury was stepping on a thumb tack which was on the floor in the woman's house. Get one every 10 years, injury or not.

OK, now that I have given you the official dogma, what SHOULD you do if you are in the field and cut yourself?

Cleanse the wound with whatever you have handy. Peroxide, soap and water, Betadine. Close it up with tape; practically any kind will do, but there are special strips, Steri-Strips, which are what we use in the ER. Got Band-aids but not tape? Use the sticky part of the Band-aid. Splint it so that it won't keep popping open. Then get thee to a physician.

Nerve or tendon injury can be repaired secondarily (that is after the lac has healed) for up to two weeks. If the tape gets wet or dirty, as it is almost sure to do in the field, take everything off, down to the skin (after a couple of days, the wound should stay stuck closed if you are gentle in removing the tape), and replace the tape and splint.

Danger signs: redness and swelling at the wound site or proximal to it (the red streak going up your arm); lots of pain, out of proportion to the injury; pus coming from the wound. Otherwise unexplained fever.

Best course of action? Don't get cut in the first place. Most lacs are the result of inattention or carelessness. Do try and be careful, OK?

Comments, questions, criticisms welcomed as always.

Walter Welch, MD, Diplomate, American Board of Emergency Medicine
 
My dad tought me about the super glue method. He owns a meat locker, where naturally they get cut all of the time cutting up cattle and Hogs. There are always 10 or 15 tubes of superglue lying on the shelves. They learned about this years ago from the inspectors who told them about vets using it on animals.
 
Dr. Welch,

Thanks for your expert recomendations. I went to a dermatologist down the road the last time that I severely lacerated my hand. a) What kind of physician would you recommend to usually do the best job of suturing? My opinion of doctors is that of other professions. There's good ones and bad ones. When it comes to my hands, I want to find the best man for the job. b) How do I find a very good one ahead of time? c) I've seen how my local ER is run and do not want to go there. Is there a good rule to follow that would help a man to deturmine whether he needs immediate professional medical attention, or can wait until the next day to see if the specialist will see him w/out an appointment? (ie. Deep cut into my thumb. Dermatologist saw me, even though it was closing time. If not, bandage, and wait till tommarrow?)

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"But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword let him sell his garment and buy one." -Jesus Christ (Luke 22:36) See John 3:15- 18

 
And I am just waiting for Dr. Welch to propose to DC, AGAIN!

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com

 
Bill, Mike: (expletive deleted) ME!! Further, DC's degree is in biochemistry. While I did work a few years as a biochemist, DC has never worked as a physician.

Equalizer; thank you for the kind words. A dermatologist would be just fine for simple lac closure. In fact, I had a nurse sew up my finger once. Honest. He had been a corpsman in 'Nam.

The problem comes when there are complications. Generally speaking, simple tendon problems can be handled by an orthopedist, especially extensor tendons (the ones on the back of your hand). Likewise simple joint space intrusions, where sewing the joint capsule is needed (I did these myself).

However, hand surgery is a specialty of its' own. You know you need this if you have an amputation or a complex injury involving fractures and damage to tendons and nerves.
In fact, if you sever the neurovascular bundle of a digit, and need it reanastamosed (sewn back together by microsurgery), you need a hand surgeon. Remember that most simple tendon and nerve injuries can be repaired secondarily; that is, after the wound is closed primarily, you have about two weeks to have the hand surgeon reopen it, find the structures that need to be repaired, and do so. Thus, if you find yourself in a place with somewhat less than stellar medical facilities, just have the lac closed, then get to a hand surgeon. There aren't very many of them (about 5 or 6 in the SF Bay area), and they will be in big cities, as they do very specialized work, so need a big population to draw upon, and they need a specially set up operating theatre, and team, to be able to operate effectively.

I hope you never need one. Remember, prevention is the key. Walt
 
DC
has never worked as a physician.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh.....so thats why I don't have a Porsche.
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"quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
~Ðøñå~

 
I last cut myself semi-seriously about...lesse, 9 months ago? Straight slice to the back of the thumb halfway between the first and second joints.

Tape and a splint holding it "all the way backwards" sealed it, and then Walt explained via EMail about the "two week rule". After about five days I was able to put some "stress" on the tendons in that direction and confirm that there was support, and it healed in good order, tiny scar, no functional damage.

My only question is, what happens if a tendon is "nicked", in other words you try a "stress test" well within the two weeks and you find there's connection? Could the tendon be "permanently weakened" in any way?

In my case I couldn't put "full stress" on it because the wound was still fragile.

Ideas, Walt?

In any case, I really appreciate the advice back then, it was a real relief to know about the "two week window".

Jim March
 
My three year old fell on the bathroom(climbing on top of the toilet) and had a nasty laceration right above his eye-on the eyebrow.At the local Hospital ER I was talking to his treating physician.He told me they use the glue most of the time but in his case the glue would put his eyes at risk.So the poor little guy had it done the old fashioned way,with stitches while in this baglike looking restraining thing called a papoose.

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Tim
 
Someone above mentioned "New-Skin".This stuff should be in your kit! I found out about it from nurse friends who keep a bottle handy at all times.I don't if it contains cyanoacrylate (super glue) or not, but it helps close the wound and forms a moisture/dirt barrier.An instant bandage.

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"To grow older is inevitable.To grow UP is optional."


 
Lost my leg to a tiger in india last year on a hunt. Super-glued it back on the next day... Fine now!


Of course I am being silly there... The super glue will work for small cuts. But if it is deep - Dr Walt is right - go see a doctor... Small German Sports Cars or not. When it all come down to the nitty gritty, all you really have is your health.

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I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor because some
moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, people would put me away!
 
DC; the reason you don't have a Porsche yet is because you haven't accepted my proposition, er, ah, that is PROPOSAL!
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Regarding the suturing of small children; there is a way of doing it painlessly. You use TAC (an aqueous solution of Tetracaine, Adrenalin, and Cocaine). You just apply the solution directly to the cut, which doesn't sting, and about 5 min. later, the lac is numb enough to sew without pain. About 8 or 10 years ago, when the price of (legitimate) cocaine went from $100/oz. to $1200/oz., for no apparent reason, we docs at Kaiser had to decide whether or not to keep using TAC. The problem is that it has to be filter sterilized, and thus has a short shelf life. We decided it was worth it, and got all the No CA Kaisers together and centralized the formulation and distribution.

So, if you have a kid with a lac, and they start bringing out the papoose board, ask them if they don't have TAC. You just cannot use it on mucous membranes (in the mouth,etc.). There is a world of difference in the trauma inflicted on the child; suture removal in a child whose lac was treated with TAC is usually a breeze. A child recently exposed to a papoose is often nearly uncontrollable.

Jim (you darn Wookie) yes, tendons can be partially severed ('nicked'). This is one reason why you like to explore the wound at the time of injury EVEN if no deficit is noted. Should you miss a partially severed tendon, however, and it later fails, they are usually easily reparable, as the intact part of the tendon has kept the tendon stretched out to its' initial length. The problem with missed completely severed tendon lacs is that the tendon shortens and atrophies, and if you go in a couple of months later, you often simply cannot stretch the tendon enough to reanastamose it (sew it back together).

Feel free to ask your fellow poster MD further questions, here or by e-mail. I went to school on public funds, so you have already paid for it. Walt

PS: DC; you don't want Vito to grow up an only child, do you? 'Hurricaine' Andrew, my 7 yo., would be an ideal older brother.
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WW
 
Walt, my real question is, "will the nicked tendon ever heal to full strength"?

If it will, then the best plan would be to keep it unstressed for as long as possible just in case it was nicked?

Jim
 
LOL....you guys crack me up. I worked a couple of years in lab animal medicine (needless to say it was NOT for me), and we use to use a veterinary 'super glue' type product called 'Nexaban' (not sure of spelling). When ever a rat tore a toe nail off, or a Cebus monkey bit another monkeys finger, we use to patch the wound with it. Purple in color so you wouldn't accidentaly glue yourself to whatever (we use to have to wear latex gloves, kevlar gloves, and then another heavy leather glove just to handle the monkeys). We use to use fingernail polish remover (acetone) to unglue mistakes
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.

Ray 'md2020'

 
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