Super steels, and do we really need them?

It was almost 2 million years ago when the ancestors of our species began chipping flakes from stones to use as chopping, cutting and piercing tools. The use of metals did not begin until roughly 10,000 years ago and iron only first became useful around 5,000 years ago. The first pocket knives emerged during the iron age roughly 3000 years ago. The topic of whether the latest tool technology was necessary in spite of the proven utility of the current technology has probably coincided with the emergence of every single scientific advance in history.

You can cut with a rock if you need to, but this isn't RockForums.
We sometimes discuss cutting, chopping and piercing, but this isn't CutForums.

This is BladeForums, where we share our enjoyment of the VARIETY of materials and designs that our current level of technology allows us to experience and to observe the cutting edge of the industry as it emerges. (see what I did there)

Threads like this strike an emotional cord in many of us because there is an (perhaps unintended) implication that the OP considers it possible, that because he may not perceive that variety and (diversity...yeah I said it) is necessary, the rest of us are naïve or foolish in our eagerness to enjoy the state of the art of cutting tool technology. The discussion can potentially inflate our insignificant differences of perspective and opinion by stirring debate where none is really needed.

We are all here to share our enjoyment of all the knives. Big ones, small ones D2 ones and 3V ones. Super steels, super-duper steels, megasteels, and ultrasteels bring all the boys to the yard. Drama-steels however, are not welcome here.
 
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I'm old school, but then I'm getting up there close enough to qualify as "old". :D

I'm perfectly happy with good old 1095 or the equivalent. From MY point of view, "super steels" are a waste of money.

I'd rather have 4 or 5 knives for the price of 1. If one gets dull while working, well, that just means sharpen it up or pull out another one. I carry multiples every day any way.

For my daily work, I don't need, nor do I want, a hair-popping edge on a knife. I just need it to be sharp enough to SAFELY cut whatever needs cutting. Hair-popping sharp dulls if a gnat looks at it and all that "extra" sharpening does is wear away the blade faster.
 
Once you start questioning what people NEED it gets tricky, No one needs S30v, no one needs fancy shoes or fancy cars but we want it because we demand more.

So no, I WANT super steels because I don't want to stop and Sharpen every 5 minutes. I LIKE the performance.

What's funny is that I'm not interested in Cars so I don't understand why someone would spend 70,000 on a fast car that still has to drive the speed limit. Meanwhile your average guy probably can't justify or wrap his head around spending $100 plus on some fancy pocket knife.
Just comes down to the pursuit of happiness.
I get very excited to own a piece of high performance steel in my pocket that actually holds a great edge that is worth the time investment to create.

So yeah, you could just go buy a husky utility cutter and be done with it all if you really want to talk about NEEDS haha and you wouldn't be wrong.
There isn't enough time and money to enjoy the Pinnacle of everything so ya gotta find what drives you and focus on it.
For me it's Knives so I'm not going to be satisfied with what will satisfy the demands of a regular dude.

154cm just isn't enough to make me happy hahaha. I WANT More and I'm willing to pay for it.

Haha I can see where non knife people are coming from though too."why buy an expensive folder?!" It's the same as me thinking why do people spend hundreds on a bottle of wine haha crazy! Don't they know four loko is wayyy cheaper?!
 
Do I need an Audi A5...No. I wanted one because I enjoy how it looks and handles. Do I need to use S110V, absolutely not, but I like the properties of the steel. A blade of the same style, made in a steel like CPM-154 or 440C would perform well, but I like the advantage and aggressiveness of S110V, S90V, 20CV offer.

Difficulty of sharpening is a non-issue for me with DMT and ceramic sharpeners.
 
If you think about it, the state of the art in consumer cutting tools is dependent on the level of technology currently available to manufacturers. As far as I know, tungsten carbide is at the bleeding edge of technology available to manufacturers. I am anticipating the use of this alloy in premium consumer products will continue to expand. With the advent of powder metallurgy and with coating technologies like PVD, we are going to see some very exciting and ultra high tech stuff beginning to emerge over the horizon. Its possible that a something like a 1095 carbon steel could be coated with a tungsten carbide PVD coating of some practical thickness, such that the easy field honing and high toughness of 1095 can be retained while eliminating its vulnerability to corrosion. Reprofiling of the primary bevel, with Diamond or CBN, will be required less frequently because the toughness of the 1095 core will allow it to be rehoned by stropping or with a honing rod without requiring the removal of material.

It isn't needed but it's sofa-king exciting.
 
silverds said:
If you think about it, the state of the art in consumer cutting tools is dependent on the level of technology currently available to manufacturers. As far as I know, tungsten carbide is at the bleeding edge of technology available to manufacturers. I am anticipating the use of this alloy in premium consumer products will continue to expand. With the advent of powder metallurgy and with coating technologies like PVD, we are going to see some very exciting and ultra high tech stuff beginning to emerge over the horizon. Its possible that a something like a 1095 carbon steel could be coated with a tungsten carbide PVD coating of some practical thickness, such that the easy field honing and high toughness of 1095 can be retained while eliminating its vulnerability to corrosion. Reprofiling of the primary bevel, with Diamond or CBN, will be required less frequently because the toughness of the 1095 core will allow it to be rehoned by stropping or with a honing rod without requiring the removal of material.

It isn't needed but it's sofa-king exciting.
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You would be very dissatisfied with what you suggested if it was made for you.
You should look at Maxamet.
It's hybrid of high speed steel and cemented carbide alloy like tungsten carbide.
Good stuff
 
Today's super steel is tomorrow's budget steel. Okay, it isn't that bad, but but I think the newer steels have hit the point of dimishing returns for most of us. The hype is easy to buy into, but after being there and back, these days I'm happy with VG 10 and try not to get to concerned with super steels.
 
I was thinking this the other day that 154 is one of my favorite steels. Does anyone need a super steel? Probably not but we like geeking out and trying different steels. Nothing wrong with it and one should not put rationalization into this hobby.
 
DeadboxHero said:
You would be very dissatisfied with what you suggested if it was made for you.
You should look at Maxamet.
It's hybrid of high speed steel and cemented carbide alloy like tungsten carbide.
Good stuff
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Given my current level of technical knowledge in steel metallurgy, I'd imagine, to anyone with even minimal background, it must have sounded analogous to my suggesting that stirring leaves, bark and dirt in a puddle of deer piss would make a delicious "super" soup.
 
Nope, probably don’t need it, but there is an personal pride of ownership knowing I am holing something special. That is it for me and why I never buy budget knives anymore. Just get no enjoyment in owning or carrying anything ‘lesser’ than vg10.
 
silverds said:
Given my current level of technical knowledge in steel metallurgy, I'd imagine, to anyone with even minimal background, it must have sounded analogous to my suggesting that stirring leaves, bark and dirt in a puddle of deer piss would make a delicious "super" soup.
Click to expand...

Mmmm yum yum.
Haha you'll get there, We're all still learning my man.
Nothing wrong with dreaming about the possibilities
 
Been using S90v and M390 for quite a while now.
Not sure why I would use anything else? Lots of new steels out there.
And I really don't care to try them all.
But S90v is still my favorite. Microtech started using S90v long ago. 20 yrs?
Most others followed suit as an option.
And M390 has been used on production knives for a solid 10 years.
So, I don't consider it new. Its more the norm, for me anyway.
A Benchmade 805 in M390 has pretty much been in my pocket
since 2009. We will start seeing better steels on base models going forward.
With Spyderco leading the way. No S30v or D2 love loss here.
I expect to see more in CPM 154 and S35VN as base model steel's.
On pretty much everything but gas station knives.
And as far as sharpening goes, a stone or Spyderco Sharp maker work just fine for me.
The trick is not letting it get dull. A light touch up now and then keeps them running smooth.
(Still like ATS34 with a good HT)
Thats another story though. The HT tells the tale.
 
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Kreyzhorse said:
For the record, I made a bone knife out of the leg of deer using flint and sandstone. It sucked.

I have to give it to our ancestors and I'd love to know what they would think about 440 steel.
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I made a couple of stone axes.
Used one to chop down a small tree...pain in the ass. ;)
Switched to a steel one, and it was SO much better I almost cried with joy. :D

Our ancestors would sing songs of exultation for years on end to have even low-grade steel, as opposed to stone or bone.
 
Some people do I guess, but I definitely don't.
All I want is a knife that still sharp at the end of the week and easy to touch up and sharpen in no time at all with a couple basic stones.
 
Popsickle said:
So I just purchased an expensive knife with what some would label a lower quality steel in 154cm. It got me thinking.... are super steels really necessary in folding pocket knives?

Customs aside.... how many people actually use their sprint runs or special edition folders using super steels?
Wouldn’t some steels properties be wasted in a folder? An example would be 3v, cruwear, pd1, etc..... would you ever truly be able to see the ability of them in the folder platform? I guess I can see high edge wear steels like s90v, 20cv, m390, etc... but even then, does everyone have the ability to actually sharpen them correctly? Probably not.

I’m very interested in hearing other opinions on this. I’ve been with this hobby for about 7 years and come to the realization that a lot of the industry is over kill lol.
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3v vs Cruwear/PD1: Cruwear/PD1 have more abrasive wear resistance, 3v can be tougher. This is all dependant upon HT. But that is where each alloy would excel.

I had a Manix 2 in Cruwear and while I didn't often need the toughness, I did one time and I was glad I had it.
- I was opening a box in our pallet rack, and one of my co-workers bumped me with a case of meat (Bone-in pork loins iirc, they avg 80lbs).

My knife came out of the box at speed and blasted the steel pallet rack. Granted, i am sure they are low carbon and HT for toughness, but the edge sank haldway up the primary bevel (sharpened bevel). I expected a horror show when I looked at the edge, but I only had a small roll which I worked out before lunch with one of our steels.

I love that alloy...
 
In order to advance "the state of the art" in any area of technology , there has to be a market . I'm very thankful for the "early adopters " that help to drive improvements . I can't afford to be in that number , but I already see the benefits becoming very reasonable in price vs performance ( Cold Steel's 3V and XHP , for example ) . Without the higher end market demand for super steels , there wouldn't be any progress at the more affordable level . So ...Bravo !
 
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