Super steels, and do we really need them?

tim37a said:
As a fixed blade knife maker, I don't really have an opinion on folders with super steel blades. For fixed blades, however, please consider this. I make skinners, filet, and kitchen cutlery. I use M390 for the skinners and filet knives for a very specific reason. Skinning deer, elk, and moose is often done just before or at dusk, because that is when they are out. Those animals often have mud, rocks and debris in their fur. Who wants to stop 2 or 3 times to touch up their knife when you are trying to get it done before dark? Same with filet knives. If you are lucky enough to fish for reds in the Kenai River you may have 3 or 4 fish per person to filet at the end of the day. After watching my brother- in- law stop between each fish to touch up his Dexter Russell, I made him a M390 blade. Now, he does 30 or 40 fish before taking 1 swipe on each side of a ceramic rod. My prototype kitchen knives are made of M390 hardened to Rc60. I sharpen them once a year before I take them to a knife show for customers to try out. I swipe each side on a ceramic stick when necessary, about every 3-4 weeks.

My point is, if you are not someone who enjoys sharpening knives for its own sake, there is a very good reason for super steels.

Tim
Click to expand...

I think there are two threads on the front page of needing supersteels. I posted on the other thread some time ago when I needed to cut dirty and abrasive materials on an almost daily basis. I had a different answer then. Now that my interests and activities have changed, my answer has become different. :)
 
For a time I wondered 'why' about them. Now, I have more experience using S60V & S90V and know there is a place for them in cutlery. And I'm not talking toward a specialized use. Just processing a lot of fish or a bull elk would merit their use. As well as many other environments. Plus, us using them (though some of it is in vogue) pushes the whole industry forward. I love 440C and ats-34 but I don't want to camp there and not move forward in my knife making. I mean think of it,--
what if we still only had rotary phones? Ha, many here can't even imagine that. Still, the example fits. DM
 
Popsickle said:
So I just purchased an expensive knife ..It got me thinking.... are super steels really necessary in folding pocket knives?
...
I’ve been with this hobby for about 7 years and come to the realization that a lot of the industry is over kill lol.
Click to expand...

Wow! A really good question.
And yeah, expensive folders are not for everyone.
I fully agree that over built products are overkill for the most part.
Would like to think that pushing the tech&specs
Is the agenda of the high order of purist enlightened knife geeks.
No harm in that, if it suits your pocket or fat purse.
Someone once said, that the proof is in the pudding.
Guess I'ld take the manufacturers word for it that
cutting performance is somewhat better with "super steels".
Yup, blade geometry is pretty important too, btw.
 
Last edited:
"Super steel" doesn't have a set meaning. It's a marketing phrase to sell more knives. Same goes for "surgical steel", "tactical", and the multitudinous other terms and phrases.

As for high alloy, high carbide fraction steels, they are useful in certain applications. They're not universally better than low alloy, low carbide fraction steels. There is always a tradeoff when it comes to mechanical properties. Why would anyone use S125V for a sashimi knife? It wouldn't make sense for the application.

Having the thinnest geometry that won't fail will provide the best cutting performance for any given steel. The alloy and heat treatment determine what the limits are for stable geometry. The tasks that need to be performed should determine what mechanical properties are needed and that should be considered when choosing the steel for those tasks.
 
Fanglekai said:
"Super steel" doesn't have a set meaning. It's a marketing phrase to sell more knives. Same goes for "surgical steel", "tactical", and the multitudinous other terms and phrases.

As for high alloy, high carbide fraction steels, they are useful in certain applications. They're not universally better than low alloy, low carbide fraction steels. There is always a tradeoff when it comes to mechanical properties. Why would anyone use S125V for a sashimi knife? It wouldn't make sense for the application.

Having the thinnest geometry that won't fail will provide the best cutting performance for any given steel. The alloy and heat treatment determine what the limits are for stable geometry. The tasks that need to be performed should determine what mechanical properties are needed and that should be considered when choosing the steel for those tasks.
Click to expand...

Good use of the word multitudinous.
 
I have 2 category's of knives, Users and collectable. Users is self explanatory and collectables consists of knives that I enjoy looking at and has the prestige of being a real member of the knife world. It is much easier to converse about knives and steels when you own them.
Their is an expression in Yiddish that is best suited for the collectables He likes to Kvell and look at his accomplishments. This refers to a person reaching a place in their life monetarily where they could buy an expensive painting' hang it, take a chair and sit back and just look at it for hours, this is Kvelling. I consider the the metallurgy, choice of colors and ergonomic design to be very artful and also hold on to their value.
I have 8 PM2's I only use 2 but I enjoy them very much. Many knives that are manufactured today are similar to the horsepower wars between the car makers. Lets see who can design a wacky design in an exotic steel that is totally non functional knife.
Some of us buy the knives to carry only, others like to collect and some of us like to do both.
 
David Martin said:
For a time I wondered 'why' about them. Now, I have more experience using S60V & S90V and know there is a place for them in cutlery. And I'm not talking toward a specialized use. Just processing a lot of fish or a bull elk would merit their use. As well as many other environments. Plus, us using them (though some of it is in vogue) pushes the whole industry forward. I love 440C and ats-34 but I don't want to camp there and not move forward in my knife making. I mean think of it,--
what if we still only had rotary phones? Ha, many here can't even imagine that. Still, the example fits. DM
Click to expand...
The rotary phone example fits from my point of view and I like it. Been reading a book where almost everyone carries around a digital personal manager that can access a large data base from anywhere via satellites. (But there is an element of ultimate control involved... Big Brother type thing.) It started with electronic address books, replaced by cell phones and moving to cell phone control of many ordinary functions. In fact life pretty much revolves around the concept from communication, device control, to complex analysis in the novel. I think this is where we're headed and the better steels (aka super steels) are where the cutlery industry is headed for medium to high grade knives. I think there will always be a market for the "cheap stuff", but I think the "cheap stuff" will get better over time.
 
halden.doerge said:
Good use of the word multitudinous.
Click to expand...
I would have preferred "plethora" so that a Three Amigos joke could be injected. Oh well...

Edit: I mean ah hell!
jefe-e1427075029861.jpg
 
When is Kershaw and CRKT ever going to change from 8cr to something better.
Like the designs of a lot of there knives but want VG10 for the steel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mo2
Blacplastik said:
When is Kershaw and CRKT ever going to change from 8cr to something better.
Like the designs of a lot of there knives but want VG10 for the steel.
Click to expand...
Kershaw has ZT for that. CRKT though, should have a premium brand, I think. It's about time, no? Call it CRKC maybe. Columbia River Knife and Collectible, I dunno...something.
 
silverds said:
Kershaw has ZT for that. CRKT though, should have a premium brand, I think. It's about time, no? Call it CRKC maybe. Columbia River Knife and Collectible, I dunno...something.
Click to expand...
They would be smart and work with we knives to make a mid tier brand.
 
silverds said:
Kershaw has ZT for that. CRKT though, should have a premium brand, I think. It's about time, no? Call it CRKC maybe. Columbia River Knife and Collectible, I dunno...something.
Click to expand...
That would change a lot of people's perceptions of CRKT. The steel thing is hard since their knives are made in China. But a premium line could be made else where perhaps.
 
22-rimfire said:
That would change a lot of people's perceptions of CRKT. The steel thing is hard since their knives are made in China. But a premium line could be made else where perhaps.
Click to expand...

There are a few premium brands already in made China. WE and Kizer come immediately to mind. As Mo2 Mo2 suggested, they could work with WE Knives who has multiple models with S35VN and others with M390 steel. Where there's a will....
 
When I first got into knives, I was still baffled by people blowing over $100 on a knife, and had the attitude of "those suckers who are paying all this money for super steels..." Really, I was just ignorant.

Then I got into super steels. I got a few, realized the benefits and the drawbacks that come with them.

I'm now back to older steels and "yesterday's super steels." Most of my collection is 1095, 1075, D2, VG10, 154CM.. etc... Now I CHOOSE not to seek out super steels, but I do it from a position of experience and knowing what I need and what I don't. That said, i don't run away from certain super steels either. I just take it all in stride and don't get caught up in the hubbub of either side.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top