Super Steels vs Regular Steels

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Nice article. I hate when people recommend a super steel simply based on the number in the name as far as a rank. Like S110V is a better super steel than S90V or given the choice of steels they would choose CPM 4V over CPM 3V when they most likely don’t even have experience with either.

The worst part is to take steel recommendations from a guy with a high forum post count, thinking he has steel knowledge.

Always choose your steel based on how you will use them and what is important to you. Edge retention, corrosion resistance or resharpening ability to keep it very simple when it comes to folders.
 
In this article I answer the following questions:
Were "super steels" invented by the internet?
Is there a standard definition for super steel?
Is "super steel" a positive or a negative term?
What properties do super steels have?

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/10/01/super-steels-vs-regular-knife-steels/

Great article, Larrin. As always. Have you proposed a particular formula to any of the crucible steel companies? You seem to have a very good idea of how to create a good compromise between toughness and edge retention.
 
Great article, Larrin. As always. Have you proposed a particular formula to any of the crucible steel companies? You seem to have a very good idea of how to create a good compromise between toughness and edge retention.
If any knife steel companies would like to hire me as a consultant, they are free to e-mail me. :)
I have been exploring options for independently producing knife steel along with a knife supply company for the past couple years, but it is slow going when doing it on the cheap.
 
Nice article. I hate when people recommend a super steel simply based on the number in the name as far as a rank. Like S110V is a better super steel than S90V or given the choice of steels they would choose CPM 4V over CPM 3V when they most likely don’t even have experience with either.

Most of the "experts" are honor graduates of Google U, and have quoted the favored quotes, referred to charts posted here, and joined the herd in their steel preference. They don't go buy a new $250 - $500 knives for test trials every time a new steel is put into the market for manufacture. They don't buy new knives with the latest and greatest from different manufacturers just to compare the steel heat treat across several different manufacturers so they have a valid data set. I don't think anyone could keep up with the amount of steels coming out these days, much less perform valid tests on same steels to measure their performance from different manufacturers.

The worst part is to take steel recommendations from a guy with a high forum post count, thinking he has steel knowledge.

But... high post counts mean knowledge, right? I thought that checking here three times a day and posting your opinion (that in many times simply concurs with the group's) made you an expert by osmosis...

Always choose your steel based on how you will use them and what is important to you. Edge retention, corrosion resistance or resharpening ability to keep it very simple when it comes to folders.

No doubt there are a lot of smart guys here, and no doubt there is a ton of good information here. BF makes a great jumping off point when researching particular knives and steels. But after a few years of seeing a new steel introduced every six months and having the group feel that is the new baseline, it is wearying.

I don't think the term "super steel" was invented here, but a lot of the faux intellectual knowledge and snobbery seem to be well rooted here. Steels that were "super steels" just a few years ago are dismissed by the experts as "good for the price","good steel on a budget knife", "OK for my young son who might lose his knife", "good when I don't want to use my *fill in blank with newest super steel*.

I agree that it is important to purchase the steels that you want in a knife that do what you want them to do. We have a lot of choices these days and you can pretty much tailor your steel to your activities and while some manufacturers do steel better than others, most steels in quality knives these days are more than adequate for the average user.

Robert
 
Super steels aren't super once the next one comes out. The marginal increase in performance isn't worth the hype but manufacturers sell it and consumers buy it.

Remember that PD1/Spectrumwear/Cruwear/Zwear is just Vascowear.
 
Thanks Larrin. The characterization of M390 as an inexplicably tough stainless steel always seemed odd to me, and is not consistent with my experience with M390 blades occasionally chipping slightly with large amounts of cardboard cutting or in accidental impact with harder objects.

I'd be curious to get your take on Elmax, which has a reputation as being "the toughest PM stainless steel available". Based on composition alone, I have a hard time believing this, even though it's one of my favorite steels. Have you done any testing on Elmax?
 
Blade Magazine has been running some great articles, with blades being used to chop lots of different types of wood soft and hard, using many types of steels.

What you notice is the steels like 1059 hold up as good as the more costly types of steels.
And you find you don't have to spend hundreds of dollars to buy many of these tools.

I highly advise everyone to read Blade Magazine.
 
Thanks Larrin. The characterization of M390 as an inexplicably tough stainless steel always seemed odd to me, and is not consistent with my experience with M390 blades occasionally chipping slightly with large amounts of cardboard cutting or in accidental impact with harder objects.

I'd be curious to get your take on Elmax, which has a reputation as being "the toughest PM stainless steel available". Based on composition alone, I have a hard time believing this, even though it's one of my favorite steels. Have you done any testing on Elmax?
I haven't tested Elmax, though there is some data from Uddeholm. If you look at the Vanax datasheet you can see that at 59 Rc Vanax got 30J in their impact test and Elmax 22-23J: https://www.uddeholm.com/app/uploads/sites/36/2017/08/VANAX-Superclean-eng-1705-e1.pdf

Meanwhile Vanadis 4 Extra is shown to get 75J and Vanadis 8 got 45J. Vanadis 8 is a new alternative to 10V with 8% vanadium and still has double the toughness of Elmax: https://www.uddeholm.com/files/PB_Uddeholm_vanadis_8_english.pdf
 
I haven't tested Elmax, though there is some data from Uddeholm. If you look at the Vanax datasheet you can see that at 59 Rc Vanax got 30J in their impact test and Elmax 22-23J: https://www.uddeholm.com/app/uploads/sites/36/2017/08/VANAX-Superclean-eng-1705-e1.pdf

Meanwhile Vanadis 4 Extra is shown to get 75J and Vanadis 8 got 45J. Vanadis 8 is a new alternative to 10V with 8% vanadium and still has double the toughness of Elmax: https://www.uddeholm.com/files/PB_Uddeholm_vanadis_8_english.pdf

Right, but IIRC their own data used to suggest that, prior to the new Vanax, Elmax was the toughest PM stainless available. I have a hard time believing that when things like *edit* CPM-154 (not AEB-L) exist.

Also, that document on Vanadis 8 seems to show similar toughness to 3V at 62 HRC (~40 HRC, as quoted from Crucible). Interesting.
 
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Great article especially in todays climate of I won't buy a knife unless is has xyz steel usually translating to must have a super steel. It makes perfect sense that high edge retention would relate negatively to toughness thanks for sharing.
 
Great writeup again! I consider all powdered steels to be super steels and or anything that's ht to 61+hrc.

M390 etc are not very high on the toughness list especially considering its idea hardness is 61hrc. I've seen many of cracked blades and occasionally chipping from tough use. But people still are being told or thinking it's high toughness. These are usually filthy casuals.
 
Right, but IIRC their own data used to suggest that, prior to the new Vanax, Elmax was the toughest PM stainless available. I have a hard time believing that when things like *edit* CPM-154 (not AEB-L) exist.
Bohler-Uddeholm USA did some toughness testing with a nonstandard geometry and reported that Elmax had better toughness than "PM 14-4CrMo" (CPM-154), S30V, and S35VN. The results look a little funny and I haven't seen them replicated. I would love to test some Elmax. https://knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Bohler-Uddeholm-toughness-testing.pdf
 
Forgot about that, thank you. How about CPM-154 then?
That is pm, no doubt, but due to high carbide volume and size, it’s toughness is not even near AEBL. For a hunting knife it’s probably a good steel, although I would use Vanadis 4 extra for everything, except for big choppers, where I use S1, A8mod and K600.
 
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