Superior to a traditional full tang?

bpeezer said:
Designing a knife after a tooth would make sense if it performed the same function. Try to make a feather stick with your teeth :eek:
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But teeth are "optimally" designed to resist impact. For instance, I see molars as designed for impact on the "sides" or the edge/spine of a blade, while incisors are made to function as tips for piercing material. In fact, isn't the perpendicular or straight downward impact of teeth on a given material the angle to which the greatest forces apply?
 
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Go make it, go break it, show us when done. Otherwise ramble away.
 
I agree with DeadBox!

What's wanted here is an instrumented test, so we can see exactly how much shock load it takes to make this knife fail.
 
St33L said:
But teeth are "optimally" designed to resist impact. For instance, I see molars as designed for impact on the "sides" or the edge of a blade, while incisors are made to function as tips for piercing material. In fact, isn't the perpendicular or straight downward impact of teeth on a given material the angle to which the greatest forces apply?
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How much are you using a knife for "straight downward impact" with the tip?
 
bpeezer said:
How much are you using a knife for "straight downward impact" with the tip?
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Downward impact of the tip on teeth would be equivalent to a forward thrust, or a motion perpendicular to a given surface, not necessarily a downward only direction of the blade's tip.
 
St33L said:
Downward impact of the tip on teeth would be equivalent to a forward thrust, or a motion perpendicular to a given surface, not necessarily a downward only direction of the blade's tip.
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Regardless of orientation, how often do you stab stuff with such force that you break your handles? Any failure I've ever seen has been due to lateral forces. I've also (unfortunately enough) broken three teeth by getting hit in the face. The knives broke in the blade, and the teeth broke in the exposed part. Full tang handles are rarely the weakest part of the knife, unless they are designed with cutouts that cause excessive stress concentrations.
 
bpeezer said:
Regardless of orientation, how often do you stab stuff with such force that you break your handles? Any failure I've ever seen has been due to lateral forces. I've also (unfortunately enough) broken three teeth by getting hit in the face. The knives broke in the blade, and the teeth broke in the exposed part. Full tang handles are rarely the weakest part of the knife, unless they are designed with cutouts that cause excessive stress concentrations.
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I understand your point - the premise was simply that whether or not it's the weakest part of the knife upon impact and depending on the task/use, there may be occasions where tangs do break. If we can improve on tang construction, then that's one more aspect of a knife that can prevent breaks or stresses on the tang, or maybe even other parts of the blade if the entire blade and knife profile's physics allows for energy to spread out past the ricasso to the handle. So, changing the blade profile may be better to prevent the blade from breaking, but as far as handle/tang construction is concerned, how about a different look at it?
 
Assuming you still intend to hold the knife in your hand, the arm makes a good shock absorber.
Making one part stronger just moves stress to another part. So eventually you need to design in a stress absorber. Axes do that by using a wooden handle. Some blades use tempering or lamination to deal with stresses.
Different parts of the knife cop more stress than others. I don't think the handle needs to be the strongest part, in most applications.

Teeth are not a good starting point,IMO.
An animal with a broken jaw usually dies. A broken tooth is not such a big deal.
When hacking into something, I would rather the knife break than my wrist.

I still am not sure what you are trying to achieve.
 
St33L said:
I understand your point - the premise was simply that whether or not it's the weakest part of the knife upon impact and depending on the task/use, there may be occasions where tangs do break. If we can improve on tang construction, then that's one more aspect of a knife that can prevent breaks or stresses on the tang, or maybe even other parts of the blade if the entire blade and knife profile's physics allows for energy to spread out past the ricasso to the handle. So, changing the blade profile may be better to prevent the blade from breaking, but as far as handle/tang construction is concerned, how about a different look at it?
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I'd be super interested in seeing the transition between tang and blade. That will be the true masterpiece :thumbup:
 
Tell us how you are going to increase the cross section at the red line. You can't magically make the transition between the blade and tang disappear.

If you think you can, draw a picture for us.
 
St33L said:
I have more ideas than I can count or test, but here's another one anyway, so please bear with me... if it already exists, then there may already be answers.

What if you have a threaded, cone-shaped, full screw tang?

Then, it may at least theoretically, 1) screw into the handle (assuming a hidden tang) and thus stay mechanically anchored (+ adhesive) for a more secure fitting throughout the handle, while the guard or bolster acts as a washer/nut, thereby eliminating the need for pins/bolts, and 2) the cone shape may contribute to greater stress relief relative to a traditional full tang at various points along the blade or primarily the tang (which was the previous posts' theory).
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That should work like a charm! Revolutionary thinking! Patent it.
 
marcinek said:
Tell us how you are going to increase the cross section at the red line. You can't magically make the transition between the blade and tang disappear.

If you think you can, draw a picture for us.
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I'm primarily referring to the tang.

It would be the same question as asking why one would choose, say, a stick tang over a half tang, or a full tang over a stick tang. If the tang didn't matter, then everyone should choose the smallest tang as it requires the least amount of effort to build. But, it clearly does matter to different people for different tasks. So then, is a full tang the best tang construction? Asking about the other parts is relevant to the overall integrity of the knife, but as far as the specific tang shape is concerned, I'd think it would have less bearing than discussing the tang's shape itself.
 
I think I figured out how to do that. I think the stamping might cause stress risers, though. :D

it033374_5.jpg


Sorry, OP--just havin' fun. I do think it's a largely academic question, though. Again, most knives today have tangs way more substantial than they actually need. :)
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I think I figured out how to do that. I think the stamping might cause stress risers, though. :D

it033374_5.jpg


Sorry, OP--just havin' fun. I do think it's a largely academic question, though. Again, most knives today have tangs way more substantial than they actually need. :)
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lol that's what I figured. I take it all in stride.

I like passing ideas by you all though. My crazy ideas / curiosities get hard but honest criticism.
 
Now, for equal quantity of steel a tubular tang will give greater rigidity, if I have my facts straight.
 
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