Support with choosing equipment for adding sharpening to my existing business.

P

peterflars

Joined
Dec 15, 2014
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I would greatly appreciate any advice on the subject of sharpeners. I currently own a small laundromat well located in an older neighborhood and thought it may be a good idea to add knife sharpening to our services. I have a workshop in the back of the laundromat with a decent amount of space and plenty of workbench area. I am looking for advice on purchasing a belt sharpener of some sort that will give good results in a timely fashion as well as be durable and reasonably priced (500-800 dollars). I know i will also be needing to purchase a basic setup of any other equipment that may be necessary that I am not thinking of. My goal is to spend as much time as I can learning the craft before I hang out my shingle. Any advice on programs, certification, lectures, conventions, and anything else would be greatly appreciated. I live in Texas. I am hoping to be sharpening for 5 small restaurants in the immediate area as well as start servicing the local neighborhood when I am up to speed.

Thank you for any and all support with this,

Lars
 
Lars,

If I had to do it all over again I would probably have started out with a Viel S5 belt sander and get my own nice baldor motor with it (the unit can be sold without the motor for a good price). In that link, if you can't see the english version then click "English" in the top right hand corner.

The reason for this recommendation is that

1. you will get a lot of machine for a good price
2. very good quality from what i hear, plus the baldor motor and you should be good until you retire lol
3. it has TONS of jigs that you can buy with it to sharpen things such as drill bits, scissors, and planer blades as your business grows.

You will need to practice a lot and learn what you are doing, but if you are fairly hand and eye coordinated then you can go far. Give me a call sometime and I would be happy to discuss any pointers or tips and answer any questions as best as I can (I own a local sharpening business as well). 864-eight one zero-zero 656
 
+1 on the viel I have one set up to do the primary bevel and it works wonderfully. two changes need to be made as to stock. get the table it sometimes comes in handy, and get a ceramic glass platen, it dosent wear and the belts have longer life. plain and simple if you want bang for the buck this is it. I have a kmg and bader for heavy grinding and finishing my blades the viel is just for sharpening. I have a 1 hp motor on mine for using a leather belt also have a 1/2 ge I bought with mine. they have scissor attachments as well as other sharpening devices should you grow to the need. I wouldn't ake what I paid for mine now. the ceramic platen also gives you a flat true surface to work from.
 
I too like the Viel. I don't know of another machine that is as versatile as this one for the price. If you decide to get it, also get he scissor attachment and the knife rest. Once you get it home you will probably replace the soft rubber feet with better ones and maybe the ceramic platen as mentioned before and maybe a variable speed motor. You should also fab some sort of dust collection as well. Mine sets on work bench over a hole in my van with a dust collector connected to it and a small hose near the belt.
I've sharpened several thousand knives on mine and starting to think about building one similar in quality as my KMG.
Also, to gain practice and confidence, buy cheap knives at the thrift store. You can also use it to touch up serrated knives. To re serrate them you can use the pink wheels that are used on chain saw grinders. If you find yourself doing a lot of them you will soon want some Borazon wheels.
Keep us updated!
 
Thank you so much for your recommendations and support. I am going to have a good look at the Viel and check out all the attachments, motor possibilities etc..
Most importantly, I appreciate your encouragement and tips on learning the trade. I will be calling on you as I move through this in the new year. I am certain this if just the beginning of many questions and possibilities...

Happy Holidays and travel in good health.

until then,

Lars
 
Can a Beaumont KMG be set up with similar accessories to do kitchen knives & scissors easily?

I have a KMG with the typical accessories . . .10" wheel,platen, etc . . .?

I ask because my brother was an ameteur knife maker years back & I am trying help him supplement his income . . .
 
pretty much no the knife makers grinder, kmg is just that not geared toward sharpening. if you want to sharpen the viel is most bang for buck. I have the kmg, bader and the viel the viel is set up as a sharpener only. kmg just simply dosent have the attachments available for it as a sharpener. if you want to freehand it would be find. remember if you try on a 600 dollar chefs knife and ruin it the viel and attachments wouldn't have cost what a replacement knife would.
 
You can do anything with a little welding lol
 
you can but can you do it as cheaply as the viel and attachments? I bought every attachment for mine up to and including the bit sharpener. the drill sharpening alone has paid for everything several times over. I have a machine shop close and have his business as well as a couple of his competitors. I do a lot of bits even carbide so it is what you use it for.
 
Excuse for stepping in but I tried googling "Viel" and none of links refer to a sharpening machine. Would someone please elaborate? Thank you.
 
Try a search for: Viel Tools

The Viel looks like a nice machine for the price. Any thoughts on the 1/4 vs 1/3 Hp motors for sharpening?
 
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ftr-14c get the 1/2 you will be better pleased with it, I use a 1/2 and also a 1hp on mine the 1 is a faster motor, I bought an extra drive wheel with mine reamed it and cut a new keway for the 1 hp. I use mine for profiling some smaller blades I make, sharpening the slower 1750 rpm does well. stock removal is faster with the 3200. the kmg and bader both have a tendency tojerk stock out of your hands at times, the smaller stuff is harder to control on the 2 inch belt when the blade maybe 3 inch or less. the 1"wide belt viel is the most bang for the buck all across the board. the plus side of the viel is setup takes seconds to change the attachments and setup is a snap.
 
kn4wd, when you sharpen do you use the guide and go against the rotation of the belt? That kinda scares me as I go freehand with the belt.

I spoke to a guy at Viel and he told me that he recommends the 1/4 Hp because it is less dangerous. He also said that I would not be able to tell the difference between the 1/4 and the 1/3rd when in use. My Harbor Freight is a 1/3 and I never had a problem with it. I think its time to upgrade to the Viel with a 1/2 Hp.

A big Thanks to peterflars and everyone who contributed to this thread for turning me on to Viel and spending my money:thumbup:
 
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get a motor with reversible rotation most can be reversed by reversing two wires inside. most aircompressor motors turn in reverse to a washing machine motor. I would have to look at mine to tell you for certain which way it turns and it isn't possible tonight as the shop is already locked up and I am too tired to go back tonight. been forging a leaf spring into blades today, one more in the morning and I will start it and see for sure. yes the possibility still exsists ,but I think mine turns downwards toward the table. will let you know in the morning. I have two knives to finish up before tomorrow night. I got mine direct from viel in Canada and they are still on the web. I think I waited a whole 3 days for it to get here. the 1/4 didn't do it for me, you might like it. I do a lot of custom blades for 110 bucks in carbon and the viel is the go to on them. if you want to loose control of a blade put one of these on the kmg or bader they are 3 and 5 hp the bader is 3 and the kmg 5. the variable speed helps there though, just not on a small blade you have to use pliers or tongs to be able to grind a 4 inch blade that small. no I don't use a guide anymore, I have it though I only use it for the starting angle on the bevel.more or less a check to be sure. I do use the table a lot though. I don't do hollow grinds only flats. pm me and I will send you some pics of what I make. I don't have posting pics avalible here.
 
kn4wd said:
you can but can you do it as cheaply as the viel and attachments? I bought every attachment for mine up to and including the bit sharpener. the drill sharpening alone has paid for everything several times over. I have a machine shop close and have his business as well as a couple of his competitors. I do a lot of bits even carbide so it is what you use it for.
Click to expand...

What I am saying is just weld a little adapter on the side of the belt sander that will then make the viel jigs or even tormek jigs usable. =)

kn4wd said:
get a motor with reversible rotation most can be reversed by reversing two wires inside. most aircompressor motors turn in reverse to a washing machine motor. I would have to look at mine to tell you for certain which way it turns and it isn't possible tonight as the shop is already locked up and I am too tired to go back tonight. been forging a leaf spring into blades today, one more in the morning and I will start it and see for sure. yes the possibility still exsists ,but I think mine turns downwards toward the table. will let you know in the morning. I have two knives to finish up before tomorrow night. I got mine direct from viel in Canada and they are still on the web. I think I waited a whole 3 days for it to get here. the 1/4 didn't do it for me, you might like it. I do a lot of custom blades for 110 bucks in carbon and the viel is the go to on them. if you want to loose control of a blade put one of these on the kmg or bader they are 3 and 5 hp the bader is 3 and the kmg 5. the variable speed helps there though, just not on a small blade you have to use pliers or tongs to be able to grind a 4 inch blade that small. no I don't use a guide anymore, I have it though I only use it for the starting angle on the bevel.more or less a check to be sure. I do use the table a lot though. I don't do hollow grinds only flats. pm me and I will send you some pics of what I make. I don't have posting pics avalible here.
Click to expand...

I can sharpen most anything on my 2x72... including slip joints w/ blades 1" long. Just have to lower the speed and use a finer belt. In all reality the 1.5-5 hp motor won't make any difference in knife making... you won't be able to slow either one down. It's the speed that matters, which is why a vfd is really nice!
 
I went ahead and ordered the Viel 1x42 with the 1/3 hp motor. I also ordered a pile of belts from Viel and True Grit including a Surgi Sharp leather belt.

kn4wd helped me a whole bunch with information regarding the machine.

I wanted to show you guys this idea for a sharpening jig that I have in mind.



It can be used with the spine below as pictured or on top with the spine resting on the shaft and motor in reverse. There are two possibilities to adjust the angle. The first would be to loosen the lock nut on the collar and slide it in or out. The second would be to keep the collar in a fixed position and use the optional crank wheel to move the entire table in or out. I would use the angled wedges to set the angle for a specific blade as every knife would be different due to the width.

Here is a side view with the blade on top and belt running floor to ceiling. I think I'm going to like it this way.


This is a first pass and I'm still working out the details. I did a few dry runs with mockups and it feels very natural. Let me know what you think.
 
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I like it!!! I wonder how it would work with distal tapered knives? Would you just rotate the handle out in that case and thereby pushing the tip into the belt?
 
razor-edge-knives said:
I like it!!! I wonder how it would work with distal tapered knives? Would you just rotate the handle out in that case and thereby pushing the tip into the belt?
Click to expand...

On my dry runs I found that a square shaft and collar 1" wide will work better for the tips. As I'm pulling towards the tip, the spine locks in between the corner of the shaft and belt and only lets you slightly rotate in one fixed direction. I think its going to be fool proof.
 
FTR-14c said:
On my dry runs I found that a square shaft and collar 1" wide will work better for the tips. As I'm pulling towards the tip, the spine locks in between the corner of the shaft and belt and only lets you slightly rotate in one fixed direction. I think its going to be fool proof.
Click to expand...

can't wait to see the final product! keep us posted
 
I can sharpen most anything on my 2x72... including slip joints w/ blades 1" long. Just have to lower the speed and use a finer belt. In all reality the 1.5-5 hp motor won't make any difference in knife making... you won't be able to slow either one down. It's the speed that matters, which is why a vfd is really nice!

well, the fact is both the bader and kmg are vfd motors, yes I can crawl either one ,the viel wont it runs an ac motor. these motors as well as the vfd's weren't cheap but they serve me well. he is only sharpening not grinding so the viel is his best bang for the buck. on my big ones I start and stop by a foot control. the speed has to be set with the pushbuttons.
 
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