Sure does irk me when somebody asks for a deal then flips the knife for a profit...

[ChazzyP]

Just so we're clear here: flipping knives for a profit without a "Dealer" membership is against forum rules and is wrong to do on this forum.

The best thing we can do is be the example we want the Bladeforums community to be.

I spent some time reading the rules and looking for posts/stickies by the Mods or Spark, and I find no rule against "flipping knives for a profit without a 'Dealer' membership' ". I agree that the practice goes against the spirit of this forum, particularly when engaged in by those who have no other stake here and your last quoted sentence is spot on. I greatly appreciate the sense of community here.

On the other hand, I think that negotiation is just part of the process when buying and selling in an open market such as the Exchange. As your buyer asked for a discount, I would assume that he would expect to be asked for the same consideration by a potential buyer when selling his new/your former knife. Thus his price might have been set so that he could come down to make the sale; cover his shipping, PP fees, and other costs; and maybe break even.

I've come down on sale prices because I wanted to move on and recoup what I could. I had no feeling of philanthropy or generosity in doing so--just wanted to make the sale. I had warm and positive exchanges with the buyers and became friendly with some, but didn't care the least what they might ask for if they decided to sell. There's a number of people here that buy and sell a lot of knives not for profit, but because they like buying and selling and handling a lot of different knives. I don't think most of them make any money at it, they just set their initial price-points to try to minimize their losses.

 

[Ken44]

As far as someone buying a knife me and then turning around and profiting from it goes, not only does it not bother me, I actually applaud it! I got out of it what I wanted, so what they do with it is none of my concern. If they're better at me at selling and finding a buyer who will pay more, then maybe I need to pay more attention and become a better seller.

This seems to be written by someone who has a complete understanding of the "real world". I applaude you.

Paul

I agree.

Looks like there's a lot more people in here who value a few bucks more than building friendship within the community... Kinda a bummer but no more deals for me I suppose.

Honestly I gave spent most of the last few years in the Traditional forum here and I guess I've been spoiled by the kindness found there. Maybe I've softened too much to venture into general population

No reason to make a statement like that about those that disagree with you in this thread.
That's not very nice.
I disagree with you about being upset enough to start this thread about it, so l guess you can wrongly lump me in with that statement.

$30, really, I mean $30, and it has you upset enough to start a thread here just because you gave him $10 off asking price

Did you even think about how he will have to pay shipping and PP fee's, take the time to take pics and list, and will more than likely wind up taking less for it, just like you did.
I doubt he'll make a dime off of your knife and here you are all tore up about it for no reason.

And I highly doubt he bought it just to flip. I know I've gotten knives that I didn't like as much as I thought I would, and then resold.

Just forget about it, and relax a bit. Some of these first world problems isn't worth fretting over.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I spent some time reading the rules and looking for posts/stickies by the Mods or Spark, and I find no rule against "flipping knives for a profit without a 'Dealer' membership' ".
While I don't personally think it really applies here, my guess is this quote from membership levels is what he is referring to:

"DEALER / MATERIALS PROVIDER - Dealers are defined as anyone who purchases at wholesale pricing, or purchases items with the intent to resell (flipping). Other terms for dealers include purveyor, broker, reseller, etc. Materials Providers offer raw materials such as steel, handle materials, or other items related to knifemaking in general as typical stock for sale to the forum members or to the general public via their own store front or website."

 

[ChazzyP]

I spent some time reading the rules and looking for posts/stickies by the Mods or Spark, and I find no rule against "flipping knives for a profit without a 'Dealer' membership' ".

While I don't personally think it really applies here, my guess is this quote from membership levels is what he is referring to:

"DEALER / MATERIALS PROVIDER - Dealers are defined as anyone who purchases at wholesale pricing, or purchases items with the intent to resell (flipping). Other terms for dealers include purveyor, broker, reseller, etc. Materials Providers offer raw materials such as steel, handle materials, or other items related to knifemaking in general as typical stock for sale to the forum members or to the general public via their own store front or website."

Yeah, that must be it, Peter, and you seem to point out that it's a definition of "Dealer" and not a prohibition of flipping by others. The subject is really rather vaguely covered in the rules and probably for the best, as it's largely unenforceable. As I've stated a couple times, flipping does kinda go against the spirit of things here, but it doesn't really bother me. People should buy and sell for what they can reasonably pay and receive.

Like Rev says, anyone who spends much time here knows who's who and who they want to do business with. The OP has made the point that he doesn't necessarily consider his buyer to be a flipper anyway, just ungrateful and transparently greedy. He's certainly entitled to his opinion and while it seems a rather thin basis for starting a thread, it's surely resulted in a lively discussion, which is very much in the spirit of what this place is all about.

 

[jstrange]

While I won't say what was done was against the rules or morally objectionable, I will say it was in poor taste. I sure wouldn't do it, and if it was done to me I likely would not start a thread about it, but I would damn sure remember it next time that person asked for a discount.

 

[TonyRV2]

Yeah, that must be it, Peter, and you seem to point out that it's a definition of "Dealer" and not a prohibition of flipping by others. The subject is really rather vaguely covered in the rules and probably for the best, as it's largely unenforceable. As I've stated a couple times, flipping does kinda go against the spirit of things here, but it doesn't really bother me. People should buy and sell for what they can reasonably pay and receive.

Like Rev says, anyone who spends much time here knows who's who and who they want to do business with. The OP has made the point that he doesn't necessarily consider his buyer to be a flipper anyway, just ungrateful and transparently greedy. He's certainly entitled to his opinion and while it seems a rather thin basis for starting a thread, it's surely resulted in a lively discussion, which is very much in the spirit of what this place is all about.

Dealer Membership: Allows Dealers to sell on BladeForums.com in the Dealers For Sale Area. Dealers caught selling at other member levels will be banned.

And with Dealers defined as including those that flip knives, I would have to say that there is no ambiguity what so ever. Of course, this doesn't prevent an unscrupulous flipper from begging for a discount and then attempting to sell the knife on Fleabay for a profit. Perhaps that's what happened here, perhaps not. One thing is apparent...no one has showed up here to defend their personal honor.

Edit: Removed 'quote = Chazzy' from top of post

 

[Ken44]

Dealer Membership: Allows Dealers to sell on BladeForums.com in the Dealers For Sale Area. Dealers caught selling at other member levels will be banned.

And with Dealers defined as including those that flip knives, I would have to say that there is no ambiguity what so ever. Of course, this doesn't prevent an unscrupulous flipper from begging for a discount and then attempting to sell the knife on Fleabay for a profit. Perhaps that's what happened here, perhaps not.

One thing is apparent...no one has showed up here to defend their personal honor.

Who should show up here to defend their personal honor ???
The buyer sure has no reason to show up here.

There was no reason for this overreaction thread. I haven't looked , but doubt the guy has even sold the knife yet, and if so, I doubt he made a profit.

And I don't get what's up with all this dealer talk. We know the rules, and what a dealer is, and this guy isn't even close to being a dealer.
If we want to get into what "Dealer" definitions are we need to start a new thread. It has nothing to do with this one at all.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Unless the OP notified the buyer of this thread he is probably oblivious to this whole discussion. He was never named so I doubt others have notified him.
I turn over knives very quickly if I don't think they fit where I had hoped(maybe even the same day I receive them). I might ask a little more than what I paid to see if I can cover my costs and break even. Am I a flipper-I don't feel so. I just don't need a bunch more knives in my drawer that I don't think would get used. I had high hopes when I bought it or just wanted to see it, but it didn't work out, so I move on. If you add up all my sales(100's), my winners would be lucky to buy a Happy Meal, my looses could buy a nice used vehicle.
When I bought the knife I didn't promise to hold it until death, and obviously neither did the seller. I just make fast judgments as to what I want to keep and what I want to sell-for better or worse.

 

[TonyRV2]

Who should show up here to defend their personal honor ???
The buyer sure has no reason to show up here.

There was no reason for this overreaction thread. I haven't looked , but doubt the guy has even sold the knife yet, and if so, I doubt he made a profit.

And I don't get what's up with all this dealer talk. We know the rules, and what a dealer is, and this guy isn't even close to being a dealer.
If we want to get into what "Dealer" definitions are we need to start a new thread. It has nothing to do with this one at all.

If that fellow is a member of this site, and bought the knife on this site, I can pretty much guarantee he know about this thread unless he/she is some kind of imbecile. Furthermore, I didn't bring up what it means to be a dealer on this site, I only clarified it. If you flip knives here, then you need a dealer membership to do it, period, or risk being banned. If that's not acceptable, then flippers should flip their wares elsewhere. No ones holding a gun to their heads to stick around here.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

If that fellow is a member of this site, and bought the knife on this site, I can pretty much guarantee he know about this thread unless he/she is some kind of imbecile. Furthermore, I didn't bring up what it means to be a dealer on this site, I only clarified it. If you flip knives here, then you need a dealer membership to do it, period, or risk being banned. If that's not acceptable, then flippers should flip their wares elsewhere. No ones holding a gun to their heads to stick around here.

I think it would have to be clear that you were flipping as a business, but these decisions are above my pay grade and left to the administration. Whatever they decide or how they handle it is fine with me.,

 

[Armadew]

Giving someone a discount is a kindness.

What is turning right around selling it for a higher price?

Not a kindness in my book.

I prefer this place to be full of kind people, not people who take advantage of kindness to make a buck.

 

[Ken44]

If that fellow is a member of this site, and bought the knife on this site, I can pretty much guarantee he know about this thread unless he/she is some kind of imbecile. Furthermore, I didn't bring up what it means to be a dealer on this site, I only clarified it. If you flip knives here, then you need a dealer membership to do it, period, or risk being banned. If that's not acceptable, then flippers should flip their wares elsewhere. No ones holding a gun to their heads to stick around here.

I wasn't replying to you, but I was saying the buyer has no reason to post in this uncalled for thread. No reason at all.
If someone started a thread like this about me the only reason I would show up would be to laugh about the thread being started, and discussed

The guy isn't a flipper, nor a dealer, so need to keep bringing that up.

I don't understand at all why this thread was started, and especially when the fellow it's about HASN"T EVEN SOLD THE KNIFE. He may wind up losing money. Who knows.

I hope the thread starter will think about locking it since nothing wrong was done.

BTW- Our great sales forum Mods do a great job here, and know way more than most think. If someone is flipping enough to be a dealer you can bet they know about it, and will do something about it if called for. They know what they're doing and do a great job here.

 

[Gastonknife]

This is one of the most ridiculous threads I have seen lately. It has no proof or merit.

 

[shortsocks]

Just forget about it, and relax a bit. Some of these first world problems isn't worth fretting over.

+1.

Just get over it. Relax. Don't take things personally. It happens. If he made a profit...If he didn't make a profit....it doesnt matter. In the end he spent money here. I spend money here. I have 4 knives that I'm hiding from my wife right now.

Can we please get back to our addictions...as adults we need to confront that...I really hope my wife doesn't find out about this forum.

 

[Dan57]

Unless some sob story is brought into it, I see asking for and getting a discount as just a part of the negotiation process. It seems like you (Macchina) perceived giving a discount to be an act of kindness because of how new the listing was. The buyer may not have seen it that way.

In the future, I would just not give discounts on new listings. Doesn't really matter what was going through the buyer's head or if he's making money on the flip.

 

[ChazzyP]

Quote Originally Posted by ChazzyP View Post

Dealer Membership: Allows Dealers to sell on BladeForums.com in the Dealers For Sale Area. Dealers caught selling at other member levels will be banned.

And with Dealers defined as including those that flip knives, I would have to say that there is no ambiguity what so ever. Of course, this doesn't prevent an unscrupulous flipper from begging for a discount and then attempting to sell the knife on Fleabay for a profit. Perhaps that's what happened here, perhaps not.

One thing is apparent...no one has showed up here to defend their personal honor.

Just to be clear, and for what it's worth, the above quote is from TonyRV2, not me. Not my view at all.
Just a typo, for sure.
Edit: Ken and I are respectively changing the names of whom was quoted in his earlier and this current post for accuracy. Not sure if this makes it clearer , more confusing, or if it really matters.

Who should show up here to defend their personal honor ???
The buyer sure has no reason to show up here.

There was no reason for this overreaction thread. I haven't looked , but doubt the guy has even sold the knife yet, and if so, I doubt he made a profit.

And I don't get what's up with all this dealer talk. We know the rules, and what a dealer is, and this guy isn't even close to being a dealer.
If we want to get into what "Dealer" definitions are we need to start a new thread. It has nothing to do with this one at all.

Who should show up here to defend their personal honor ???
The buyer sure has no reason to show up here.

There was no reason for this overreaction thread. I haven't looked , but doubt the guy has even sold the knife yet, and if so, I doubt he made a profit.

And I don't get what's up with all this dealer talk. We know the rules, and what a dealer is, and this guy isn't even close to being a dealer.
If we want to get into what "Dealer" definitions are we need to start a new thread. It has nothing to do with this one at all.

 

[Sonnydaze]

One suggestion for the OP, if you find yourself in that situation again. Agree to sell for the lower price, but don't include the tube/box. That way if they are truly buying it for their own use, it won't matter. If they are buying it to flip, not having the tube/box will limit them from being able to sell it for more.

That's fine, as long as you TELL them that there is no box with the knife. Otherwise, it's unethical, IMO, and that is what we're discussing here.

 

[LastRodeo]

Yes, I made that clear in my second post, I was not trying to suggest that it wouldn't be disclosed to the buyer. The buyer would decide, buy it at asking price with box or buy it at lower price without box.

I should have made that more clear in my first post. My ethics is such that it never occurred to me that anyone would assume it wouldn't be disclosed.

 

[ChazzyP]

Unless some sob story is brought into it, I see asking for and getting a discount as just a part of the negotiation process. It seems like you (Macchina) perceived giving a discount to be an act of kindness because of how new the listing was. The buyer may not have seen it that way.

Dan hits it on the head. Some view selling for less than the advertised price as a discount and a kindness. Others of us think of it as just business--expediting the sale. These two views have emerged from numerous posts on this thread. No reason we can't just buy and sell as we choose, still be members of a like-minded community, and not get our feelings hurt. Business and friendship are not mutually exclusive.

Dealer Membership: Allows Dealers to sell on BladeForums.com in the Dealers For Sale Area. Dealers caught selling at other member levels will be banned.

And with Dealers defined as including those that flip knives, I would have to say that there is no ambiguity what so ever.

"DEALER / MATERIALS PROVIDER - Dealers are defined as anyone who purchases at wholesale pricing, or purchases items with the intent to resell (flipping)."

I appreciate being directed to language defining Dealer Membership that's germane to the discussion of flipping that's evolved here and that there is indeed no "ambiguity" as Tony correctly states. I do, however, think that the key word in the definition above is "intent" which is difficult to gauge and is the vagueness to which I earlier referred. This leaves it up to the Mods to use their discretion to figure it out.

BTW- Our great sales forum Mods do a great job here, and know way more than most think. If someone is flipping enough to be a dealer you can bet they know about it, and will do something about it if called for. They know what they're doing and do a great job here.

Got that right, Ken. :thumbup:

 

[Ken44]

Just to be clear, and for what it's worth, the above quote is from TonyRV2, not me. Not my view at all.
Just a typo, for sure.

I just looked back to see what happened with that. Tony had your name in quote form at the top of his post. He may have quoted you, changed his mind and then erased all but your name. Not sure what he was trying to do really.

He had your name up above it typed in quote form , so when I quoted him it showed as if it was your quote. Sorry I didn't notice that, and change your name to his in the quote box.

When you quoted me it now shows that I said it this time
I didn't, nor did you. I'll go change the name on the misquote, and please do the same for me.
Thanks