Surface Grinder Restoration & Belt Conversion WIP

Patrice Lemée;12541740 said:
Thanks for trying Quint.


Of course, I had to have some leftover parts. :( Well only one but even with the exploded parts drawing I am having a hard time finding where it goes. It's a 5/16-18 X 3/8 set screw.

Click to expand...

How did the wheel mount?

Does the hub have several threaded holes around the center to use setscrews as wheel weights ?
 
It seems I misremembered :) about the elbow being metal,it's PVC.
The only time I'm worried about fire is when I grind titanium so I don't run my dust collector while grinding it.
 

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PVC is horribly caustic when it burns, it flash rusts everything in the vicinity. Ask me how I know...
 
Ive decided to convert my 6x12 Harig to use 2x72 belts. I bought it mainly to use for tapering tangs but taking off .003 per pass just doesn't cut it. I'm also going to experiment with using shims to grind bevels on it :thumbup: We'll see how that goes. Keep up the great work Patrice!
 
Thanks for the pic Calvin.

Ok, sorry for the delay but family vacation and other stuff kind of put the grinder on the back burner. But I am back at it and ready to make this beauty work.

Dust collector done. I'll post pics of what I ended up doing there.

I got a wheel (make that wheels) and dresser (with holder) from James, a gentleman on the Yahoo Group (amongst other things, you are too generous James, thanks again). I wasn't sure how to use the holder so I make one for a small dresser a friend in Maine gave me on vacation. Worked ok until I figure how to use the other one.



I dressed the wheel, chucked a piece of steel on there and and ran the grinder for about 5 minutes, doing one side and flipping the piece over to see how flat I can get this. Well after only a few minutes of the flip side I suddenly see oil appear on the chuck and workpiece. :(



Of course it looks to be coming from the spindle. :(



I cleaned up the oil and when I got back to the shop the next day, some more oil had seeped out onto the chuck and down the side. Ne not happy. At first the oil was dirty but it is now as clear as when I put it in.

Plus, the motor I put on is making a lot of noise, which slowly subsides after about 4-5 minutes of running. Also not a good sign I guess.

Any ideas about both these two issues, the spindle being the worst one of course. Thanks
 
I dunno Patrice, it's concerning...

The motor noise, I'd address firstly. Alignment issues, sloppy drive shaft, or something, could be contributing to the noise, no matter how you slice it, noise is bad.


Most bigger surface grinders have specially balanced, super hard (near impossible) to replace spindle motors. Mine whines in the winter, and it hurts my nerves. Atleast you can change yours, but I'm concerned with what the caveats are concerning that freedom.


I might be tempted to fly up and help you sort it, if I got an invite... :P
 
Patrice,

I have a machine just like yours. The one I bought was in the Keema, Texas area and was submerged during hurricane Ike. I ended up pulling the shaft and replacing it with a 5/8” keyed shaft and flange bearings on either side of the shaft housing.
I am not sure if you have tried this yahoo group yet but you may want to have a look at some of the archives. DO NOT say anything about converting to belt in the group or you may be “drawn and quartered”. I am serious! :D toolmakergrinder@yahoogroups.com

Curtis
 
Thanks Curtis, I did posted all this on the toolmakergrinder group and got some great help. I did mention the conversion but I did not get any negative feedback. Of course I did not actually do the conversion yet and may not. Got to fix this first in any case but I really did not feel like pulling out the spindle. Guess I don't have a choice now. :(

Thanks again and I may pick your brains if, make that when I get stuck. ;)
 
Pat, my grinder leaks oil at the spindle when I over fill it? I just add a squirt or two every time I use it and all is well.
 
Thanks, that is encouraging Don, I did fill it a lot. How hot does the spindle get? I have to use the temp gage to check mine but it felt kind of warm.
 
Patrice- maybe it's like a Little Giant or a Harley--- you know the owner takes care of it, if it's covered in oil! ;) :D

This is a great thread, I've really enjoyed it. :cool:

Oh btw- I don't think I've ever seen a wheel dresser that tall. The one that came with my grinder is really short and squatty (shop-built at Leatherman Tool).
 
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I have the same surface grinder. Here are some pictures of a conversion. But I can change it back to rock wheel in about 5 minutes. I think the best of both worlds. It is so much faster with a contact wheel to take forged Damascus billets or small Damascus for guards etc. and grind them with a belt. I then will take it up to 220 (using finer belts 80, 120 220). If I need precision I just take three screws out after wheel removal and but a rock wheel on and dress it and back at it. I had the contact wheel made at Sunray. Just measured what it needed to be and they were great to work with and very reasonable. I got my wheel in 90 durometer. Works great.


 
Thanks for the pics Dan. That looks great and surely something I will add to the grinder eventually.

In that case Nick it would have to be a THIN coat of oil so it doesn't clash with my cleanliness obsession. ;) I am glad you enjoy the thread. I also made a smaller holder for the other dresser I have. I still cant for the life of me figure out how I am suppose to use this tall one. Maybe it was simply made for a larger machine.

Back to work. As promised, a couple of pics of the dust collector. I ended up doing like Don suggested and hanging it free of the machine. I also ran it as straight as I could to the grinder to optimize flow. Only thing left will be to make a couple of flaps to help direct the sparks into it a little better. This is more about my OCD than measurable performance since with the amount of suction, the sparks already pretty much all go into the collector.





And an action pic, just because...



About the heat, it is not as bad as I thought. These readings are after running the grinder for about 10-15 minutes. As you can see, the heat is highest at the front of the spindle. Hopefully somebody on the Yahoo Group can tell me if these readings are normals.







There was almost no oil coming out this time when I ran the grinder and just a little bit seeped out afterward which make me believe (or hope at least) that Don has it right. I'll continue to monitor the situation a bit before venturing down the slippery slope that is taking the spindle apart.

Of course I still have to tweak the finish part of it but I did put the micrometer on the part I ground and it was flat within 1-2 tens. Maybe a hair more because of my poor measuring tools and skills but even something like half a thou is something I could never even come close to on the mill. I tell you, I am a happy camper. :D



Now I need to figure out is changing the bearings on the motor is something I want get myself into. Not that I don't like all this but I am itching to go back actually making knives.

Thanks again for following and for all your help.
 
Pat, I like your exhaust set up. I'm going to unhook mine from the machine.

My spindle gets warm, but not hot. I did get some of the right spindle oil from a good member here, but have not used enough yet to see any difference.
 
Some new information.
I got in touch with the previous owner's son today to let him know that he could bring his Dad to the shop to see the grinder (and bandsaw, etc...) anytime he wanted to.

I had sent him an email about the motor trouble and he said that he talked to his Dad about that. Turns out that the motor is wired for 240V but with a 120V plug. He says that the pneumatic feed is 240V and he did not want to wire the two separately so he wires the motor for 240V but ran it off 120V. Hence the motor taking a long time to start up/pick up speed. I don't know much about electric motors but I can't imagine that this is a good idea. Then again, the gentleman did know a whole lot more about it than me, rigging up the pneumatic feed and all, so it might be. For now I'll just leave the feed off until I learn more about using the machine and will continue to use my motor.

Onward we go...
 
Patrice Lemée;12682491 said:
Some new information.

Turns out that the motor is wired for 240V but with a 120V plug. He says that the pneumatic feed is 240V and he did not want to wire the two separately so he wires the motor for 240V but ran it off 120V. Hence the motor taking a long time to start up/pick up speed. I don't know much about electric motors but I can't imagine that this is a good idea. Then ..
Click to expand...

Perhaps what he meant is the pneumatic feed is 240, so he wired the motor for 240 and ran them both off of 240. That would mean the 120 plug was being plugged into a 120 "style" outlet with the normally neutral prong hot to provide 240. Running a motor that is wired for 240 on 120 will cause it to overheat under a load.


Edit:

Also, that oil that leaked out in your picture above looks a little like motor oil to me. Motor oil will run hot in a spindle because it foams. I suggest you try a clean light oil such as air tool oil or hydraulic oil or (gasp) spindle oil and see if it runs any cooler. 120 is pretty warm for that spindle and will cause thermal growth issues such as unstable depth of cut.
 
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Thanks for the motor info Nathan. I hope that the gentleman can come to my shop so I can pick his brain about it some more. If I ever run it with the feed it will be with proper wiring.

As far as oil is concerned, I used ISO32 Compressor oil which is what I use as "B" oil in my lathe. The darker oil that came out at first was what was already in there. It is now running clearer. I will try and flush it out a little more with some more oil and see if it helps with the heat. I would buy spindle oil in a sec if I could find some locally. I do appreciate your expert help on this. :thumbup: Thanks.

PS: Sorry Javand, I forgot to add that the you definitely have an open invite.:D
 
It's pretty easy to just run 240 to it, then split off one hot leg of that for your 120 volt load... don't know why he'd have done anything else, if he had a 240 circuit handy. Odd.
 
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