"surgical black" Arkansas stone... NOT

fsatsil said:
The Smiths fluid doesnt contain any mineral oil and I believe it is water based.
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I wouldn't even have considered that, but it explains quite a lot. Looking for details on Smith's own site, they mention this:
"Smith’s specially formulated Honing Solution is nonpetroleum based and features built-in stone cleaning agents and rust/corrosion inhibitors."
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If it's detergent-based (betting it is), I could understand how that might be an irritant for some. I have my own issues with certain soaps/lotions/shampoos; either irritating my sinuses or my skin, or both. I even developed a rash from a couple of them, and added scents can kick-start a headache for me, too.

The irony is, a truly food-safe & pure mineral oil is likely the least hazardous or irritating for most people, as it's completely inert and won't react with anything in the body. The 'non-petroleum' marketing appeal of some products can be very misleading in that regard, but I'm sure it'll appeal to many with a fear of petroleum products in general.


David
 
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So as an update, if any of you are interested, I got my translucent black Arkansas stone in from www.naturalwhetstone.com
It was 69.99 for a 2x6x1/2 stone. Very expensive! It was semi translucent black, almost a grey off color. Unfortunately the stone is nothing like one you get from dans. The surface is porous and just strange.
In fact the stone feels and looks IDENTICAL to the 2 arkansas stones I have got from PinnAcle in the passed, they must come from the same quarry. They are cut the exactly the same, the boxes are identical and the out of the box surface feels the same.

Dave at natural whetstone says they are not related, but may come from the same mine. Perhaps the product coming from the PinnAcle and natural whet stone mine just feel and look quite a bit different from where Dan's get his stuff? The surface feel and sound is just not similar. Dan's stones come so dense and fine right out of the box, the pinnacle and natural whetstone.com stones just feel porous, its hard to explain. If you run your fingernail back word across it you can feel the difference. I've done tons of lapping and burnishing to both of my pinnacles but could never get a surface I liked.

The dude at natural whet stone said I can 100% return the item, so I can't take nothing away from him there, but their soft and hard stones are great.
Oh well, I thought you guys might find that interesting!
 
It is now 2022, I wanted to add to this thread because there are a lot of sellers of Translucent and black Ark's on the market in 2022, The best place to get a great quality stone would be Dan's.
However, I would like to point out the difference between Dans Stones and let's say Natural Whetstones or Best Sharpening stones, Preyda, eBay-depending on the seller, ECT. I would say for the most part the Black hard and Translucent stones from all of these places are the same quality of the stone, they get them from the same place even though they claim they don't. However, Dans makes better cuts and puts more work into flatting and polishing the stones before the sale. You get a ready-to-work Grade A stone from Dans right out of the box, at least most of the time. I have gotten a stone from Dan's that needed work, however, they hooked me up for the trouble, From All the other places, you will get a great stone that needs work, Flattened out then lapped I would say anywhere from 2-6-8 hours of work depending on your methods for stonework.
That is the real difference between these stones. So when people buy a black hard Ark for 80-150 and say it does not look smooth or it's not flat or the box is cheap, What they are buying is a rough cut good quality stone that is not ready for use.
They will have to put the time and work in to get the stone looking and working as good as a 300.00 Dan's stone. Some of my best Arkansas Stones have come from Natural Whetstones. However, I have had to put a good bit of time and work into the stone to get it in Grade A condition for Finish work on knives or razors. I don't mind putting in that work, for me money is tight, so my time is worth less them my dollar, So I will pay 150.00 for a 3x8x1" Black Hard ARK then put 8 hours into it. for me, that costs me less money than paying 350.00-500.00 from Dans for the same quality stone in the end after I put work into the stone. But you might be different your time might be worth more than your dollar or you just might not want to do the work. That is okay too. I own stones from all the good companies selling quality stones, Dans, Natural, Best, Preyda, ECT., and the difference between them is the craftsmanship in the cutting, flatting & polishing of the stone and not the quality of the material.
If you want to have a work-ready stone you go to Dan's, If that is not in your budget then you can buy a great stone from many other outlets. However, expect to have to put a good bit of work into the stone to get it in the same shape as Dan's stone would be out of the box. But Like I said you are not paying Grade A prices for these other stones. Just wanted to update this thread with the new info and my point of view from 2022! Have a good one!
 
TrickedoutTech said:
It is now 2022, I wanted to add to this thread because there are a lot of sellers of Translucent and black Ark's on the market in 2022, The best place to get a great quality stone would be Dan's.
However, I would like to point out the difference between Dans Stones and let's say Natural Whetstones or Best Sharpening stones, Preyda, eBay-depending on the seller, ECT. I would say for the most part the Black hard and Translucent stones from all of these places are the same quality of the stone, they get them from the same place even though they claim they don't. However, Dans makes better cuts and puts more work into flatting and polishing the stones before the sale. You get a ready-to-work Grade A stone from Dans right out of the box, at least most of the time. I have gotten a stone from Dan's that needed work, however, they hooked me up for the trouble, From All the other places, you will get a great stone that needs work, Flattened out then lapped I would say anywhere from 2-6-8 hours of work depending on your methods for stonework.
That is the real difference between these stones. So when people buy a black hard Ark for 80-150 and say it does not look smooth or it's not flat or the box is cheap, What they are buying is a rough cut good quality stone that is not ready for use.
They will have to put the time and work in to get the stone looking and working as good as a 300.00 Dan's stone. Some of my best Arkansas Stones have come from Natural Whetstones. However, I have had to put a good bit of time and work into the stone to get it in Grade A condition for Finish work on knives or razors. I don't mind putting in that work, for me money is tight, so my time is worth less them my dollar, So I will pay 150.00 for a 3x8x1" Black Hard ARK then put 8 hours into it. for me, that costs me less money than paying 350.00-500.00 from Dans for the same quality stone in the end after I put work into the stone. But you might be different your time might be worth more than your dollar or you just might not want to do the work. That is okay too. I own stones from all the good companies selling quality stones, Dans, Natural, Best, Preyda, ECT., and the difference between them is the craftsmanship in the cutting, flatting & polishing of the stone and not the quality of the material.
If you want to have a work-ready stone you go to Dan's, If that is not in your budget then you can buy a great stone from many other outlets. However, expect to have to put a good bit of work into the stone to get it in the same shape as Dan's stone would be out of the box. But Like I said you are not paying Grade A prices for these other stones. Just wanted to update this thread with the new info and my point of view from 2022! Have a good one!
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Maybe you could tell me why are the there two black arks and one labeled ultra fine at two different price points listed on Natural Whetstones website?
I have suspected for a long time the cheaper Black Ark from Natural Whetstone is the old Dunstan Black but don't know that for sure. Do you have both the Black ark and the Black ultra fine from Natural Whetstone?

Are you in the industry or have inside information of where these guys are getting their stone? There are more mines than manufacturers and that is proprietary information.
 
garry3 said:
Maybe you could tell me why are the there two black arks and one labeled ultra fine at two different price points listed on Natural Whetstones website?
I have suspected for a long time the cheaper Black Ark from Natural Whetstone is the old Dunstan Black but don't know that for sure. Do you have both the Black ark and the Black ultra fine from Natural Whetstone?

Are you in the industry or have inside information of where these guys are getting their stone? There are more mines than manufacturers and that is proprietary information.
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When I purchase from Natural I normally buy the NW831BL Black Hard Ultra Fine Ark Stone. They will email you and answer any questions you have, even talk on the phone. , About 2 years ago when I purchased my first stone from Natural. I also read those same rumors about stones being Dunstan. However, from what I can tell that is not true. I talked to them and directly ask them if any of their Arks were Dunstan and not true Arkansas Novaculite. They told me absolutely not, and I have purchased from them ever since. The normal Black stone WITHOUT the label (Ultra Fine) # NWBL1031 is a Black Hard Ark, Not the same grade as the NW831BL, but it is still a very good stone. I also own the NWBL1031. Yes, the stone is a genuine Novaculite Black hard Ark it is just not as fine as their ultra-fine finisher NW831BL. The NW831BL after some work is just as good if not better than my 375.00 Dan's Black Hard Ark,
As far as I know, they do not sell Dunstan stones and if they did they would advertise them as Dunstan. I have two NW831LB They are some of my best stones ever, I use one for Razors only and it is an Amazing stone, However, I did have to flatten the stone and polish it up to my liking before I would call it a Grade A stone. The difference as I said, the cheaper stones are just not refined like Dans. Dan's does most of the work for you and that is in the price.

Here is one of my stones after putting in some work. The stone in the photo I use to finish my Razors and it is not only an amazing edge it is a quick finisher as well. I"m in my 40s and have been honing on a stone from a young age. I know a good stone when I have one.
Hope this helps.
As for the business, No i"m not a seller, However, I have been purchasing from most of these companies for many years. I have visited some of them as well. I talk to all of them on the phone and have a good business relationship with them. I don't like getting screwed over. So I make it a point to talk to people before I purchased, There are not as many quarries as you think, and most of them are legally shut down for many different reasons. However, I have been told more than once that they all use the same sources for material, Dan himself has told me that, The difference is in how much work they put into the stone before selling. Dan's put in the work to make sure you have a ready-to-go stone, The company's sellers for a cheaper price do not. If you have a question about buying from Natual email them give them the part number you are looking at and ask them, They will be honest with you, He'll, I got a stone one with a crack in it from Natural and they sent me a new one and let me keep the one with the crack. That stone with the crack is in the photo, The crack never causes any issues and is very hard to see, The point is they taking care of me, This is why I'm willing to go out on a limb for them!

318462704_5685374128242977_23782282646108738_n.jpg
 
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Blade Lab said:
Having flattened a black surgical stone, I can attest to the fact that that is some WORK.
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LMAO, yep it sure is, I use a couple of Dimond plates, Silicon carbide with my precision granite block you see in the photo above, I find that faster than using the Dimond or Carbide lose grit on glass. Everyone has their favorite way of taking on this job. No matter how you do it unless you have a 10k precision stone grinder like Dan's uses, you are going to put in the work. However, I find if you are still newer to owning and taking care of quality stones of any type, Jnats, Ark, Stones, or even Naniwa stones, taking the time to work a stone flat and then put a smooth polish on it with some good steel is a great learning experience. It truly shows you how hard each stone is, teaches you how to properly maintain a good flat stone & is just a good experience for a person that wants to hand sharpen his tools, Razors, or knives. As for Trans and Black hard Arks, there is nothing really harder in the stone game, If you can work an Ark stone flat you can work with all other stones, LOL
 
TrickedoutTech said:
When I purchase from Natural I normally buy the NW831BL Black Hard Ultra Fine Ark Stone. They will email you and answer any questions you have, even talk on the phone. , About 2 years ago when I purchased my first stone from Natural. I also read those same rumors about stones being Dunstan. However, from what I can tell that is not true. I talked to them and directly ask them if any of their Arks were Dunstan and not true Arkansas Novaculite. They told me absolutely not, and I have purchased from them ever since. The normal Black stone WITHOUT the label (Ultra Fine) # NWBL1031 is a Black Hard Ark, Not the same grade as the NW831BL, but it is still a very good stone. I also own the NWBL1031. Yes, the stone is a genuine Novaculite Black hard Ark it is just not as fine as their ultra-fine finisher NW831BL. The NW831BL after some work is just as good if not better than my 375.00 Dan's Black Hard Ark,
As far as I know, they do not sell Dunstan stones and if they did they would advertise them as Dunstan. I have two NW831LB They are some of my best stones ever, I use one for Razors only and it is an Amazing stone, However, I did have to flatten the stone and polish it up to my liking before I would call it a Grade A stone. The difference as I said, the cheaper stones are just not refined like Dans. Dan's does most of the work for you and that is in the price.

Here is one of my stones after putting in some work. The stone in the photo I use to finish my Razors and it is not only an amazing edge it is a quick finisher as well. I"m in my 40s and have been honing on a stone from a young age. I know a good stone when I have one.
Hope this helps.
As for the business, No i"m not a seller, However, I have been purchasing from most of these companies for many years. I have visited some of them as well. I talk to all of them on the phone and have a good business relationship with them. I don't like getting screwed over. So I make it a point to talk to people before I purchased, There are not as many quarries as you think, and most of them are legally shut down for many different reasons. However, I have been told more than once that they all use the same sources for material, Dan himself has told me that, The difference is in how much work they put into the stone before selling. Dan's put in the work to make sure you have a ready-to-go stone, The company's sellers for a cheaper price do not. If you have a question about buying from Natual email them give them the part number you are looking at and ask them, They will be honest with you, He'll, I got a stone one with a crack in it from Natural and they sent me a new one and let me keep the one with the crack. That stone with the crack is in the photo, The crack never causes any issues and is very hard to see, The point is they taking care of me, This is why I'm willing to go out on a limb for them!

318462704_5685374128242977_23782282646108738_n.jpg
Click to expand...
I'm pretty well set for arks, but am always looking for bargain arks on the used market.

You have probably already read this but if not......

www.google.com

Annual Report of the Geological Survey of Arkansas

www.google.com
 
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