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Les, That's impressive. How did accurising the 10-22 work out for you?
@ Shotgun, I'm with you. You "do" loose a bit of power in an auto loader vs bolt, but not anywhere near 40%.
-Bruce
-
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Survival .22 Rifle
- Thread starter gangsta965084
- Start date
@ Shotgun, I'm with you. You "do" loose a bit of power in an auto loader vs bolt, but not anywhere near 40%.
-Bruce
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 9,742
I zero it at 50 feet, which puts it precisely on the black at 100 yards, and good enough for anything in between. I just carry my ammo loose in a convenient pocket.
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- Jul 6, 2010
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- 807
Ballenxj...the first stage was a Clark fluted barrel, full floated in a Ruger non barrel band stock, Tasco 6-24x 55mm AO scope, Leupold mount on the receiver, and minor trigger work...probably shot about 3inches at 100y... talked to David Tubb and Ken Tapp...second year, scope cantilevered off barrel, double lugged and bedded the barrel rather than full float... barrel cut bact to 18inches...built a fixture to change the angle on the sear engagement notch on the hammer in addition to changing the trigger return spring (I was doing trigger jobs for all three of the team members... got the trigger down to 16ounces but I'm more comfortable with about 2 1/2 pounds)...friend gave me a Fajen thumbhole stock for Christmas...probably 2 1/2 inches ...third year reduced the headspace of the bolt and learned that occasional flyers came from the firing pin moving around... TIG welded a limiting stop on the firing pin....built a rim thickness gauge to measure the cartridge rim thickness and select cartridges within the same range... added a barrel harmonic tuner out of a piece of 1 1/4 aluminum round stock...bored a .930 hole...cut a length wise slot and cross pinch cap screw... my SW M41 pistol likes Win SuperX .22lr ammo, so to use the tuner to match the barrel harmonic to that ammo... shoot a group, and slightly move the location of the tuner... you can actually see the groups tighten or open up by slight change in location of the tuner....ended up with an autoloader that can shoot 15/16 inch 10 shot (USPSA paster) groups at 100yards with non match high velocity ammo...will shoot a little better with Federal Gold Medal Match or 500a....
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Macchina
Gold Member
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- Apr 7, 2006
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- 5,204
A couple lessons learned from shooting .22s (and from a couple kinematics and dynamics classes):
Parallax
Everybody is talking about their two point of aim ranges. Keep in mind that these two distances are affected by the height of the distance of the axis of your barrel to the center of your scope (parallax). The closer your scope centerline is to your bore axis, the closer those two ranges should be to each other. The first range is when your bullet comes up to meet the line of sight of your scope, the bullet continues to rise, peaks, then falls and intersects your scope's line of sight a second time. This i why your scope height affects these numbers. Don't sight in your .22 and expect to get the same second point of aim range as somebody else.
Mounting a small objective scope to reduce parallax
Because .22's are pretty slow, it can get very frustrating to sight one in if you don't anticipate the rise and fall of the bullet and know where it intersects your point of aim. If you have "see-through" scope mounts that allow you to use your open sights (and also raise the scope up 2"+), don't be surprised if you miss game a lot even when you aim right on: you can get several inches of rise if you sight in your rifle at too of close a range (such as 20 yards).
I have 30mm or less objective scopes on all my .22's and buy mounts so that the bottom of the scope is around .020" off the barrel. When selecting a small objective scope, keep in mind that at 2x or 4x power, you're going to be seeing more than twice the light (I don't have the figures in front of me) than you'd be seeing with your 9x deer scope, so less objective diameter is needed. Also, this kind of precision scope mounting is not needed for deer rifles because you don't need to hit a 1/4" diameter squirrel brain at precise ranges under 100 yards.
Aiming up
When you sight in at 30 yards, you usually do it on a horizontal plane. When you shoot at a squirrel up in a tree at a 45 degree angle, you're bullet only drops the equivalent of the horizontal distance from you to the squirrel, not the actual distance (bullet travel) you are from the squirrel. Gravity acts on objects on a vertical vector only. Meaning at 45 degrees, you'll get 70% of the drop than if you are aiming at horizontal. The other 30% of gravity is acting on slowing down your bullet speed (so your bullet is actually slowing down exponentially, which is giving gravity longer to act on the bullet in the vertical plane which causes slightly more drop than 70% of normal... but we'll save that equation for another day).
Parallax
Everybody is talking about their two point of aim ranges. Keep in mind that these two distances are affected by the height of the distance of the axis of your barrel to the center of your scope (parallax). The closer your scope centerline is to your bore axis, the closer those two ranges should be to each other. The first range is when your bullet comes up to meet the line of sight of your scope, the bullet continues to rise, peaks, then falls and intersects your scope's line of sight a second time. This i why your scope height affects these numbers. Don't sight in your .22 and expect to get the same second point of aim range as somebody else.
Mounting a small objective scope to reduce parallax
Because .22's are pretty slow, it can get very frustrating to sight one in if you don't anticipate the rise and fall of the bullet and know where it intersects your point of aim. If you have "see-through" scope mounts that allow you to use your open sights (and also raise the scope up 2"+), don't be surprised if you miss game a lot even when you aim right on: you can get several inches of rise if you sight in your rifle at too of close a range (such as 20 yards).
I have 30mm or less objective scopes on all my .22's and buy mounts so that the bottom of the scope is around .020" off the barrel. When selecting a small objective scope, keep in mind that at 2x or 4x power, you're going to be seeing more than twice the light (I don't have the figures in front of me) than you'd be seeing with your 9x deer scope, so less objective diameter is needed. Also, this kind of precision scope mounting is not needed for deer rifles because you don't need to hit a 1/4" diameter squirrel brain at precise ranges under 100 yards.
Aiming up
When you sight in at 30 yards, you usually do it on a horizontal plane. When you shoot at a squirrel up in a tree at a 45 degree angle, you're bullet only drops the equivalent of the horizontal distance from you to the squirrel, not the actual distance (bullet travel) you are from the squirrel. Gravity acts on objects on a vertical vector only. Meaning at 45 degrees, you'll get 70% of the drop than if you are aiming at horizontal. The other 30% of gravity is acting on slowing down your bullet speed (so your bullet is actually slowing down exponentially, which is giving gravity longer to act on the bullet in the vertical plane which causes slightly more drop than 70% of normal... but we'll save that equation for another day).
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Les, Again, Impressive. You can see mine on post #58 in this thread. It currently has an old Weaver scope on it, but I think I'm going to change that for a (not as old) Redfield Classic. It has a larger objective lens to help my older now eyesight. I think it's 44mm. I cleaned up the trigger myself with a fine stone. Lastly, You can call me Bruce.
-Bruce
"When you sight in at 30 yards, you usually do it on a horizontal plane. When you shoot at a squirrel up in a tree at a 45 degree angle, you're bullet only drops the equivalent of the horizontal distance from you to the squirrel, not the actual distance (bullet travel) you are from the squirrel."
Doesn't the acceleration due to gravity increase the rate of drop with time? You have 2 components which cause the bullet to take more time to reach the target. You stated one, the downward acceleration due to gravity for a bullet fired above the horizon. The second is wind resistance. These two effects should cause the bullets trajectory to be slightly lower than calculated by a static vector analysis of gravity alone.
Doesn't the acceleration due to gravity increase the rate of drop with time? You have 2 components which cause the bullet to take more time to reach the target. You stated one, the downward acceleration due to gravity for a bullet fired above the horizon. The second is wind resistance. These two effects should cause the bullets trajectory to be slightly lower than calculated by a static vector analysis of gravity alone.
Macchina
Gold Member
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That is exactly what I commented on at the end of my post!
I mispoke when I said 30% and 70% of gravity (it's actually 50/50 due to the 45 degree angle). I was looking at the ratio of a 1,1, squareroot(3) triangle for distances traveled by the bullet in the horizontal and angled planes.
The deceleration due to gravity is negligible, but if you must:
Assume you are shooting at a squirrel at a 45 degree angle with an angular distance of 30 yards (90 feet). Assume you are standing at ground level. The perpendicular vector of gravity acting on an object traveling at 45 degrees is 16.1 ft/sec^2.
Velocity[final]^2 = Velocity[initial]^2 + 2(acceleration)(distance)
Velocity[final] = square root {(1280 ft/sec)^2) +2(-16.1 feet/sec^2)(90)}
Velocity[final] = 1278.87 ft/sec
So yes, gravity does slow the bullet slightly (1.13 ft/sec or .09% speed reduction) but as I said above, the effect that deceleration will have on bullet drop is very negligible.
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wow.. you guys need to get over your math and just go shoot something.. who CARES lol... 1/8 in groups? great.. what target just sits in one place and let's you take all day to aim at.. enjoy shooting, don't try to make this some math quiz ffs I was able to shoot a hole thru a penny at about 75 feet. but due to wind and gravity yeah... lol next
I was able to shoot a hole thru a penny at about 75 feet. but due to wind and gravity yeah... lol next
Macchina
Gold Member
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wow.. you guys need to get over your math and just go shoot something.. who CARES lol... 1/8 in groups? great.. what target just sits in one place and let's you take all day to aim at.. enjoy shooting, don't try to make this some math quiz ffs
Let's see...
(Hates Math + asks what TARGET sits in the same place all day) X (makes comment about shooting a hole in a penny) = Couch Commando
I bet you wear a paracord bracelet
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Nice edit Michaelmcgo: apparently you took me comment personally, <cry>. Why did you remove your first hateful comment about me? Loser. You are the one proving to be LAME. And nope, I don't wear anything except clothes and my glasses, the paracord bracelets I just bought (are you some kind of stalker?) are on my backpack. Let's see what else you can assume considering you don't have a clue. Ok, go! 
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I should have also mentioned the Papoose as it's one of my favorites and a very functional and compact .22LR rifle:
Of course the M6 Scout (no longer available and well out of your price range at the moment) is a very effective survival firearm:
Here's a comparison between the Marlin Papoose, Marlin model 60 (stainless w/ laminated stock), Marlin model 981 (bolt action) and a Ruger 10/22 w/ folding stock and ghost ring sights.
ROCK6
whats is the thing on the stock of your marlin papoose?
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- Feb 8, 2004
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I did a little modifcation to the Eagle Industry's Rifle Stock Pouch
I opened up the front two and back two loops so they'll hold a couple of magazines. Center loop is perfect for a firesteel. Pouch holds a couple more mags, .22LR Speed-Strips for extra ammo, barrel wrench, small bottle of oil and a bore snake. Works quite well,
ROCK6
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Rock6... I like your LaRue Tactical adult beverage opener...have several...get a lot of comments from motorists about their logo sticker on my car
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- Feb 8, 2004
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Good Eye! Yeah, I have few too...very handy devices
LaRue makes some great AR accessories!ROCK6
I used to have an old Charter Arms AR-7 that was actually pretty accurate, it only liked LRN ammo though.
Right now the only .22 i have is a Henry lever gun. Seems nice enough but i've hardly used it much. I do like the fact that it will fire .22 Shorts, Longs and Long rifles.
Right now the only .22 i have is a Henry lever gun. Seems nice enough but i've hardly used it much. I do like the fact that it will fire .22 Shorts, Longs and Long rifles.
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I am a big fan of the 24C. I never thought of the inner tube idea but I do use a shell holder for the shot shells on the butt. I slip a few 22 shells right next to the shot shells and they are held in place fairly well. I also use a small blackpowder shooting bag for extra shot shells etc. The savage 24C also has a trap door in the butt for a few 22 and a couple of shotgun shells. I have been wanting to modify a 22 cartridge belt into a rifle sling to carry another 25 22 rounds. Kind of a grab and go deal. This combo gun is hands down my favorite rifle. I don't needs lots of firepower. It is a nice short gun that can be taken apart and carried on your pack or put away in your canoe. It is not choked on the shot gun, and close in the slugs work fine. Just think like a bow hunter. The Velociter 22 ammo kicks the 22 up a notch. Sometimes I wish it was a 22 mag. Regards