survival firearm??????????????

Imalterma,
Centerfires can take small game no problem, the old round nose lead 38 specials tear up squirrels and rabbits les than a HP 22LR. I have shot about a million jackrabbits a whole bunch with a 45lc. Jacks would not even act like you hit them unless you hit a bone with the old fashioned round noses at about 900FPS, switch to a keith SWC and you would knock them rolling. Chris
 
yes, i have been in places where living meant killing, and thats that, I have been places where being able to pot game meant living well, vs struggling. There are a lot of places today still on the planet where your risks are not always 2 legged. but more so, there are places where your getting along are immeasurably helped by having a firearm.

As for a .22 that will shot 1 inch plus at fifty yards. There are lots of them out there, there are several now available that brag of even smaller groups, using a good receiver sight, no scope is necessary, and with no scope, your weight is reduced, the gun carries easier, and accuracy is not reduced. I have a older Remington 513 S that will shoot about a .5 inch group at fifty yards, made in the late 50's its just a great rifle, today, I would say most Ruger .22 and marlin 60's will shoot close to 1.25 inch at 50 yards with good ammo matched to the gun.

Shooting small game is often a stalking game. Sitting or kneeling or tree braced shots are common.

I have no problem with the fact that some people CAN shoot the head of a grouse or squirrel with a .308 or any other round, but we are talking about efficiency, Fifty rounds of .308 is heavy, takes up the space of 500 .22's and although you may have the option of what a bigger rifle brings, DO YOU NEED IT?
 
runningboar said:
Now that is some damn good shooting, most people can't see a quarter at 50 yards much less hit it with iron sights. I shoot pretty good but unless you are talking about a benched rifle with peeps I don't think I can shoot that tight, I know I can't in the woods at game, with a scope no problem. Chris
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I doubt that I could see a quarter at 50 yards, but I had a .22 that would consistently shoot that accurately. That's the point. If you shoot a LOT, with an accurate .22, head shots on small game at relatively long distances are not a problem. Frontiersmen routinely "barked" (stunned by concussion of ball hitting bark beneath them) squirrels with muzzle loaders.
 
As usual I have been misunderstood, lots of guns will shoot MOA at 50yds, few people can. My father has a remington matchmaster with globe sights and him or me can stack rounds at 50 yds, however that is a far cry from a hunting gun. I have a CZ 452 that is crazy accurate out of the box with decent iron sights and there is no way I can keep it in an inch at 50 with the stock irons at a target the size of a squirrels head, with a bullseye using the 6 O'clock hold and a solid bench with front and rear bags, maybe.

I have been squirrel hunting with a 22 for 30 years and don't remember the last one shot anywhere but in the head, I also shoot a 10x scope and much prefer it to irons, to bad where I live now small game is shotgun only.

A 22 is a very viable gun for a meat gun, no one has hit on the fact that it is the most common gun in the world and cartridges can be bought almost anywhere for cheap.

Squirrel dog and gun

Picture047.jpg
 
One problem with most of the shelf .22's is crappy sights. A GOOD receiver sight makes hitting at distances pretty easy, and is a lot less to monkey with than a scope.

That is an awful big scope to be carrying around on a .22. If you like then more power to you, my preferences are different, I also find that anything above a 4x scope shakes too much for me to use in the field. Although counter intuitive, I have better luck shooting peeps than I do higher powered scopes at game. Just seems like a steadier sight picture, means I hold with more confidence.

That said, i have several .22's with scopes on them, but for field work, i carry one with an old lyman receiver sight.
 
Weaver K10, IMO a light scope that balances the rifle perfectly.

Nothing at all wrong with receiver sights, but you can't hit what you can't see.;) Chris
 
The "survival gun" definition is iffy. Mostly I view feeding myself than self defense.

I like my Italian made folding single shot shotgun. It's a 12 gauge and folds in half when not in use. Nice and light. Cheap too- 69 dollars. :) Can kill anything in my woods. Shotguns are VERY versatile.

I like .22 LR too. You can often find old .22 for like under 50 bucks. They will put meat in the pot.

Right now the barrel on the italian made shotgun is full choked and long. I read in backwoodsman that some other guy has this same gun, but I cut the barrel down, so it stores even smaller. For now, I will keep mine the way it is.

Runningboar- I see you are also a fan of the benjamin air rifles. :) The are my favorite. I borrowed a .20 cal for predator control. Drops coons and opossums like nothing. Great gun, will put food on the table. :)
 
A couple guns that I would like to have in the future that could be used for woods survival. I thought I should mention these.
-Lever action in 38/357 or 44 special/44 mag. big game and small game.
- A T/C encore single shot in 357 maximum. 357 maximum is pretty powerful looking at the balistics table, and can also shoot 357 and 38 special. Big game, and small game covered.
- A .22 pistol.
- Ruger blackhawk in 357 with 9mm cylinder.

"Each to his own methods....." :)

I like .22 and 12 gauge for feeding myself. :)
 
Guntotin_fool said:
If you like then more power to you, my preferences are different, I also find that anything above a 4x scope shakes too much for me to use in the field. .
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It is not the scope that makes you shake, the scope just allows you to see how much you are shaking. Chris
 
Back in the 90's I bought one of those Chipmunk .22's to teach my daughter (then 6) how to shoot. That rifle was super acurate with it's little peep sight. I would esily make woodchips the size of a pack of matches fly away at 25 yards just standing up on my hind legs. I ended up giving it to a friend to use with his son as we were moving to Brazil. I've often thought of making up some form of lightweight take-down stock for one and using that as my small game backpack gun. Mac
 
Actually a scope does increase the shakes, just as it lets you see how much you are shaking. It has the effect of showing you how much you shake, and your body tries to compensate, but you get tight and you shake more. A good sight picture with a peep sight seems to keep you relaxed. just my .02, but that is what I see. hand someone a rifle with peep and watch the barrel move, hand someone a 10X and watch that barrel shake.



As far as not hitting what you can not see. I have shot game at 200 yards with a peep. killed them just fine. Effective range of a .22 is about 120 yards, and with many probably less. so you get the idea. I am comfy with a receiver sight.
 
Mac,
I had a very early chipmonk in 22lr and another in 22 mag, those are some very good rifles and I am sorry that I let them go. Matter of fact, they may be perfect for what we are talking about. I also had a 14" barrel for my contender that was a real shooter, let someone talk me out of that one too.:( You mentioned a 28 gauge in an earlier post I would like to try one but I don't load shotgun and ammo is crazy expensive around here, I can shoot 20 all day for what a couple of boxes of 28 runs.
Chris
 
runningboar said:
Mac,
I had a very early chipmonk in 22lr and another in 22 mag, those are some very good rifles and I am sorry that I let them go. Matter of fact, they may be perfect for what we are talking about. Chris
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These crossed my mind.

How accurate were they?

Was the .22 magnum more or less accurate than the .22 LR ?

.
 
I like the chimpmunk, it was the first gun I ever shot. Nice and light.
I don't own one, but I own a single shot bolt gun .22.

My complaint...

For a survival gun, it is sometimes hard for me to put the cartridge in the pipe. I don't have huge hands. I like those break action single shot .22, easier to load with gloved or cold hands.

maybe like this http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/pardnerScrewIn.aspx
http://www.rossiusa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=S201220RS&category=MATCHEDPAIR
http://www.savagearms.com/30gtd.htm
 
Scottman- Good call! I didn't actually know that the H&R put out a .357 barrel. I would definitely be down for a light, handy woods gun like that...

.38 for small game, .357 for defense/large game, shotshells for snakes/small game...

Time to head to gunbroker...
 
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