Survival firearms...

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Plainsman

Joined
Apr 5, 1999
Messages
1,160
Ok, I'll be the one to bring this subject up!
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What do you "think" the ideal survival firearm would be? Let's break this down into caliber first, then the actual firearm(s).

I tend to think of myself being 'thrown' into a survival situation while hunting. This isn't a guarantee, but it is my main worry. So I'll probably have my main hunting firearm/bow with me. But what about a secondary or vehicle or pack firearm?

My first thought is a .22. Several would fit the bill. I even have a design I would like to build for a "pack" gun out of a Marlin bolt action.

My next consideration is my .44's. I hunt with a .44 magnum Ruger Redhawk and carry a variety of ammo for small to large game while hunting. I also have a .44 lever action that I use for deer hunting on occasions (thick cover).

How about shotgun/.22 combos like Savage over/unders or the newer Springield?

Comments please.

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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
deleted.

[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
I have a Springfield M-6 Scout. Its 22 LR over 410. I put a small scope on it, and am really satisfied with it.
 
I remember seeing a survival .22LR (military issue?) At any rate you could unscrew a ring that allowed you to remove the barrel and stowe it inside the stock. I wish I had picked it up when I saw it. You could also stowe ammo, cleaning kit, etc in the stock. Anybody seen anything like this and know how much they cost?

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When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

 
It is an AR-7. Henry Arms and Armalite have made them and I'm not sure which one or maybe BOTH are making them now! They run somewhere around $200 new. It floats when stowed, not sure about when assembled.

Good luck!



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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
I have one of the originally made M-6's and it is a delight to plink and have fun with but the trigger is grossly atrocious and difficult to master.

Personally, I like my Sig P 210 9mm with its 22Lr conversion unit. This set up is superbly accurate out to 100 yds.(easily).
It is the finest pistol I own and shoots like a rifle! The only drawback is it high cost but it is worth every penny. Because of its cost and scarcity most people don't have the opportunity to experience its precision.
Also, for many, the extreme cost/quality places it out of the "survival" category, however it was designed by the Swiss as a military/combat weapon. By todays standards, many of its features are not considered "combat" ready but it suits me just fine anyway. I call my setup my "Handrifle"!

 
10-22 RIFLE IN 22 CAL WITH A FOLDING STOCK AND A HEAVY HITTER IN PISTOL FORM. FOR ME THAT WOULD BE A RUGER P97(.45 CAL)
 
Ok, this one is not easy but not too hard. First off I always have my .22 S&W Kitgun in my kit in my pickup , so that would definitly be the one I have in most situations.

If I was out for whatever reason in the woods my first survival weapon would be my Ruger Single Six with scope. As a secondary or heavy weapon carried in dangerous game territory, or against two legged predators my Ruger Redhawk 4.5 inch (barrel cut and ported) .44 mag. Usually I carry the redhhawk in a bandoleer but with this combo it would be the Single Six in a bandoleer and the redhawk in a hip holster.
 
I have an old armalite AR-7 with the old skeletal stock and ported barrel (circa 1970's) and I need some replacement parts, but I don't know where to get them, the ram line extended magizines don't fit in there, and I don't want to pay 20 dollars for an 8 round steel magizine.
 
Timmy try Henry Arms. They make the current ar-7 and advertise their parts are interchangable with older guns.
 
I have an AR-7 that was made by Charter Arms. I believe the manufacturing chronology was Armalite, Charter Arms, and then Henry Arms.

Mine had a recurrent problem with "stovepiping" that I don't think was unique to my piece. I sent it back to Charter for service & they corrected the problem. However, I have no idea if they made any changes in the design of the action itself or if the problem carried over into the Henry Arms units. It would be interesting to hear the experiences of others.

I changed from the standard stock -- BTW, it does float the piece either stowed or assembled -- to a collapsible skeleton stock. It made many a backpacking trip with me & would still be my choice if weight were a serious factor (it's < 2.5 lbs). In light of my earlier feeding problems, I feel it is crucial to keep the action very clean, particularly if you are counting on taking possible follow-up shots.

I also have a Savage 24C, .22 LR over 20 GA, to which I'd give the nod if I were not overly concerned about weight. One caution here though: do not fire the shotgun with any .22 rounds stored in the butt. They WILL deform from recoil. BTW, the 24C breaks down & stows in a 21" long padded case.

Good thread. Thanks for starting it, Plainsman. I got to play with a couple of pieces that haven't been out in a while.

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Cheers,

--+Brian+--

I may be goin' to hell in a bucket, Babe, but at least I'm enjoyin' the ride.


 
Qualify weather this is a sort term or long term situation. If it is a short term, I would choose one of my customized Ruger 10/22 rifles with several spasre magazines.
If it is long term I would choose my Lyman Great plains rifle. The reason is I have and can make my own BP,bullets,flints. I have taken deer to squirrels with it and feel sure I could make it last and feed it until I died. There are other choices but I will stay with this for now.

Do not forget the "Old Ways" they helped our forefathers survive before the industrial age.

Cheers,

ts

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Guns are for show. Knifes are for Pros.
 
David vS i believe the company that makes that rifle is namber henry or something like that my local gun store carries them for around $200 Canadian. I can call him to get more info if you'd like. Geoff.
 
I'm also a fan of the AR7 for packing. I've killed hundreds of Marmots, rats and so forth. It feeds me everytime I take it out. In fact. when the dogs see it they get excited and start running in circles.

I have other .22 rifles as well but the little AR7 is my pack gun.

I usually also carry my P14 (.45ACP) with 185gr. silvertips. Not as good as a weak rifle but a hell of a lot more portable.

Ron

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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
I would choose either my 10/22 or 77/22 both scoped,accurate and reliable. You can carry lots of ammo and if for some reason (bugging out?)you don't want to be detected, they are very quiet in the woods. Of course better self-defense firearms are needed in that case. The .22 can take all small game (birds too)with head shots with no waste of meat, and also large game with head shots. I have not done this but know it works. If I'm in a survival situation I not going to worry about game laws anyway.

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Choosing a firearm would have to depend on my geographical location and what I would be using it on.

If I were going to survive off small game, my stainless Ruger 10/22 with a Choate folding stock would be nice (a decent scope would be nice, but not essential); hopefully I would have the gun sighted in properly beforehand.

My Marlin Camp 45 with Choate folding stock would be nice too, but more for a defensive type firearm (love those 15 round clips!).

The amount of ammo one can carry is a great limitation that must be considered with any firemarm, even a .22LR.

If the main thought is to hunt small game for a long period of time, I would much rather have one of my quality precision air rifles. My Maccari tuned FWB124D (.177 spring-piston) with a Busnell Trophy 4-12x40mm (Adjustable Objective) would be an ideal survival air-arm (I would also keep the open sights handy). This air rifle shoots a Crosman Premier 7.9 grain pellet at about 850fps, and regularly shoots flies at 20 yards, so shooting small game is even easier. This air-rifle is extremely quite as well which is also an advantage, plus a full box of CP pellets (1250 count) can be easily carried.

I have several other air rifles (springers, pnuematic pumps, and a PCP (Career II 707)) that are great for hunting small game, and I would be happy to have any of them along for survival purposes.

I wouldn't want to use any of them as a defensive weapon or for large game. I would rather have the above firearms or even my Colt officers .45 for defending myself.



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AirMojo the Airgunning Harmonica Man
 
It seems that .22LR rifles are very popular as survival tools here. I think that it would be a big mistake to rely on any .22LR as your primary survival firearm. You don't have enough power for big game (OK, I know it can be done) or for personal defense (I wouldn't want to be shot by one either). Is it better than nothing? Damn right it is, but IMHO the best survival firearm of all is a big-bore military style rifle like an M1A or an HK91 or something of that sort.

Those weapons have stopping power, firepower, toughness, and reliability. If I couldn't have one of those (I do have one, however) then I would want a sporter, like a stainless Winchester M70 in .308 or .30-06, or Ruger M77 or Remington M700, etc...

Living on squirrels is unrealistic do to dietary considerations and that's about all you'll get with a .22.

As for handguns, a stainless .357 or .44 Magnum revolver is the way to go for me for all of the reasons stated above. Why not a 9mm or .45? Inadequate power for big game hunting.

A shotgun is very useful, however, the range limitation means that a rifle is always the first choice.

[This message has been edited by D. Epstein (edited 08 December 1999).]
 
Plainsman was talking about a secondary weapon while hunting. I think the notion was a backup weapon of some sort. I don't believe an M1A or HK91 is a reasonable backup gun... Well.... maybe if you are a goliath.

Convenient, efficient weapons that carry well in small spaces was the issue I was speaking to. My AR7 fits in a kit about 18 inches long (the barrel length) and two inches in diameter. 50 rounds fits in a pocket. Try that with an M1A.

The term "survival" should include the type of survival one is interested in as well as locale. If we were in Bosnia I would change the backup to match the environment and the species being hunted.

It is easy to over arm oneself in the comfort of the living room but when you are slogging through mud or snow or brush it is important to start considering tradeoff's like personal power, speed of movement, stealth in food gathering. Second shots at game etc.

This morning I shot three Hungarian Partridges from my deck. I used my .22 (10/22) and took off the head on the first and gut shot the other two. Thats a lot of meat for a nickel. Never could do that with an M1A and would never get a second shot if I tried.

About the .22 and big game. The common pistol for black bear capping here abouts is the .22. Many hunters carry a .22 to finish off big game including Elk and Moose. The .22 is used by most ranchers to harvest cattle.

Ron


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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]

[This message has been edited by Doc Ron (edited 08 December 1999).]
 
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