Survival Gun of last resort.

Light but useful?

I'd take my S&W Model 66 with some full bore .357 loads and some target .38 wadcutter loads.

Or my CZ-75 along with its Kadet .22LR conversion kit.

Or my Glock Model 22 or Colt Commander.

Derringers are fun toys, but not survival weapons.


Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
runningboar said:
Also a 22 bouncing around in someone is a myth, it may happen but not as much as people talk about. And yes it will kill someone but that someone won't know he's dead for a good long time, enough time for him to do some serious damage to you or your loved ones. Chris
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Exactly. It wont generate hydrostatic shock.

Also, the "bounce around inside you" theory doesnt account that it has to actually get inside you...the rib cage and skull are alot harder to penetrate than most people think. I know EMTs, firemen, and cops who have told me that a .22 is more likely to bounce off a rib or skull than it is to hit a vital organ.

A friend of mine is currently on the local PD and told me about a shooting where the victim was shot point blank in the forehead by a 6in barreled Ruger MKII...the bullet penetrated the skin, then traveled between the skin and the skull half way around his head. Didnt even leave a scar.

I can't hit a milk jug with the NAA pictured at 10 yards, and Im a reasonably proficient marksman (3in group, 25yds kinda guy). Killing a bird at 30 yards...I'd pay to see that.
 
I have one of those,convenient,but difficult to shoot. Maybe you should consider a S&W 63 or Taurus 94 instead.
 
Why do you worry about shooting a bird at 30 yards? I have shot plenty of rabbits and squirrels with snub nose revolvers and vest pocket .22's. Usually I head shoot them, but a body shot with a .22 short will usually do a good enough job so that you can bring home something to eat. Any decent .22 is better than throwing rocks or improvising something. I pistol is fairly handy for stalking game.
 
Steel Junky, sorry for razzing you. I've done my share of "speaking outta my @ss", I'm sure others here have too.

Good subject though. Interesting look into the minds of people and how they think about survival guns and calibers.

I'll stick to .22lr for the outdoors because the vast majority of game I'll take will be smaller animals. I'd be eating plenty more squirrel, hares, marmots than pig or deer around here. Still be enough to harvest a blacktail if necessary. One or 2 boxes of .22lr + a pistol will add meat to the camp and will go 'bang' enough to keep the goblins from getting too close.
 
J_Curd said:
Exactly. It wont generate hydrostatic shock.
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Neither will a 45acp. Hydrostatic Shock is something that occurs in projectiles traveling over 2000 FPS. Pistols kill and do damage from blood loss and damage to the CNS. Not Hydrostatic Shock where tissue is actually destroyed from the violent compression due to bullet velocity.

Also, the "bounce around inside you" theory doesnt account that it has to actually get inside you...the rib cage and skull are alot harder to penetrate than most people think. I know EMTs, firemen, and cops who have told me that a .22 is more likely to bounce off a rib or skull than it is to hit a vital organ.
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Not sure how much of this if fact or fiction. A 22lr can definitely penetrate a rib cage. Now a skull... that's a different animal. I can completely believe that a 22lr or even larger caliber pistol round would glance off a skull... not that they don't have the penetration to get though... but the round shape of a skull does a wonderful job at deflecting. Here in Georgia not too long ago a man was in a court house awaiting trial... he got the guards 38spcl away from her and shot her in the head from about 1 foot. It dug a trench in her forehead skin but never went through her skull. It knocked her out. The skull is a very well designed protection system for the brain.


I can't hit a milk jug with the NAA pictured at 10 yards, and Im a reasonably proficient marksman (3in group, 25yds kinda guy). Killing a bird at 30 yards...I'd pay to see that.
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How many rounds have you put down range from your NAA?
 
CWL said:
Steel Junky, sorry for razzing you. I've done my share of "speaking outta my @ss", I'm sure others here have too.
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I'm not speaking outta my ass. I did mistate my idea in the first post... I meant to say I might be able to shoot a bird at 30 yards. Didn't mean to imply that I have done it and can do it all the time. But I'm still not a believer that it's not possible in a realistic way either.
 
I misused the term hydrostatic shock. What I meant to say was the the temporary wound cavity created either above or below the diaphragm, which results in shock. A .22 will not do this unless it tumbles at almost 3000fps.

A .22 can get inside a ribcage. Glancing off of a rib, between ribs, sure, it can get inside. A .22LR, especially out of a NAA, will not break through and pass a primary rib on a grown adult.

Even the venerable .22WRM (out of a sub-2in barrel) only produces 90-100ft/lbs of energy. It may crack a rib, or chip a rib, but it will be halted unless its just a slight glancing blow.

If I ever have the misfortune of being in a gun fight, I hope Im facing a .22 rimfire.
 
J_Curd said:
I misused the term hydrostatic shock. What I meant to say was the the temporary wound cavity created either above or below the diaphragm, which results in shock. A .22 will not do this unless it tumbles at almost 3000fps.
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I don't know much about the secondary wound channel ballistics of the 22lr... you got a source for that info. I'd be interested to read up on it. I figured any bullet made a secondary wound channel... I'm sure the 22lr does make a big one if it makes one at all.

A .22 can get inside a ribcage. Glancing off of a rib, between ribs, sure, it can get inside. A .22LR, especially out of a NAA, will not break through and pass a primary rib on a grown adult.
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Not sure. I know it would have trouble with a breast plate... especially out of a 2" barrel.

If I ever have the misfortune of being in a gun fight, I hope Im facing a .22 rimfire.
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If I gotta make a choice I agree LOL. I surely wouldn't want to face the mighty 12ga.
 
My personal minimum is my carry gun, the smallest of them is either...

Stainless Taurus 85 .38 Special, 2 speedloaders and two speed strips.

Kahr K-9 9mm, two spare magazines.

That's as lightly armed as I get. Mac
 
Absolute bottom of the barrel, last resort, doom and gloom has befallen us survival gun for me would be break action, single pump pistol like the RWS 5G that puts out 700FPS (Minimum). Rifle prefered but the title said "gun".

1000 rounds takes up almost no space.
Easily enough for birds or squirrel.
No need for CO2 cartridges or specific ammo.
accurate.
Pretty much maintenance free.

For food acquisition, I'd take it over the NAA.
 
You know, a pump air gun isn't a bad idea for small game procurement. Only issue is the lack of a follow-up shot in case you need it. But yes, a rifle would be a better choice here.
 
It's not greatly accurate but I could hit a rabbit or bird with it within 30 yards.
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I did mistate my idea in the first post... I meant to say I might be able to shoot a bird at 30 yards. Didn't mean to imply that I have done it and can do it all the time. But I'm still not a believer that it's not possible in a realistic way either.
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Sure looks like someone speaking out of their lower orifice to me...

Hey, I was trying to be nice to you.
 
Cool little guns... uber-concealable. I've never owned one... just no point really.

My minimum carry gun is a keltec .32 with Winchester silverpoints. It is not an ideal carry gun, but it also is very concealable due to its very small size and flat profile. It gets damn hot in Texas and larger firearms, although preferred, are downright impractical at times.

In the woods I generally go with my Glock .357 sig... 14 rounds of Hornady 147 grn JHP @1225 fps. Enough to stop anything I may run across in my neck of the woods.
 
"You carry that .22 Derringer loaded?"

"Sure... why not?"

"Because if it's loaded, you might use it to shoot somebody. If you did, and they happened to notice, they'd probably get pissed off and hurt you real bad."


That's a joke I remember hearing about the .25ACP many years ago. :)

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
In all honesty, sometimes a moron can taint a product for you.

I'm sure the NAA is a cool little .22LR or .22Mag. I even thought about buying one at one time.

I was looking at one at a gun shop a couple years ago. I mentioned something about self defence and the guy behind the counter actually suggested that it be loaded with snake shot and if brought to bear, shoot the assailant in the face. Once blind, he would no longer be a threat.

This struck me as a sure way to get sued for everything I own and then some. It just left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to the NAA mini revolvers. Snake shot as an SD load too for that matter.

But, to each their own I guess.
 
I have NO DOUBT you can hit a rabbit or bird with that gun at 30 yards. Maybe not every time, but survival is about getting food. 1 out of 3 or 4 would be fine.

I have a TP-22 that can hit a pie plate with pretty good regularity at 15 0r 20 yards.

As far as a .22 not being able to kill large game, including a man, My two uncles killed deer regularly with a .22 single shot Remington 514 from a Pontiac Bonneville Convertible at night.

I have not seen anyone take JAWILDERS 100$. If you are uncomfortable with the probablity of being able to hit someone in the head during duress, I'll give you $500 to lunge at me from 10 yards while I unload 7 rounds from my TP-22 into you. If your in any shape to finish me off, you can have whats left in my wallet.

As a last ditch, small, packable gun with a 50 round reserve, I think the OP is being very realistic in his approach. Would I rather carry my Combat Commander? Sure. But then I am gonna have a lot more weight, a lot more bulk and a lot less ammo. Depending on the sitch, a pocket .22 might be the smarter approach.
 
Regarding the OP- *IF* you had the black widow version in 22lr, and put 200 rounds a week through it for a month or so, then fine. But I'd honestly rather carry a crosman 1377 or bejamin 392 airgun than that for small game. There's nothing magic about gunpowder for small game getting at ranges under 50 yards.

In general, my H&R sportman 6 inch .22LR revolver is my field gun. Yeah, it's small for a gun on gun shootout in the open. *shrug*

The black widow variant is important here. This is a finicky little thing, the .22- it likes some barrel length. It *needs* some barrel length to perform well. And you sure don't lose much with the NAA black widow style or the Mini-Master. In fact, the Mini-Master is starting to look like a real wilderness survival gun- 4 inch barrel and adjustable sights, a grip you can hold onto and still a super light packable item. Twice the weight of the smaller one in .22lr, but still under a pound. I'd sacrifice 25 spare rounds of .22 out of my 100 or 200 carried for a 4 inch barrel and real sights.
 
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PrimitiveMan said:
I have NO DOUBT you can hit a rabbit or bird with that gun at 30 yards. Maybe not every time, but survival is about getting food. 1 out of 3 or 4 would be fine.

I have a TP-22 that can hit a pie plate with pretty good regularity at 15 0r 20 yards.

As far as a .22 not being able to kill large game, including a man, My two uncles killed deer regularly with a .22 single shot Remington 514 from a Pontiac Bonneville Convertible at night.

I have not seen anyone take JAWILDERS 100$. If you are uncomfortable with the probablity of being able to hit someone in the head during duress, I'll give you $500 to lunge at me from 10 yards while I unload 7 rounds from my TP-22 into you. If your in any shape to finish me off, you can have whats left in my wallet.

As a last ditch, small, packable gun with a 50 round reserve, I think the OP is being very realistic in his approach. Would I rather carry my Combat Commander? Sure. But then I am gonna have a lot more weight, a lot more bulk and a lot less ammo. Depending on the sitch, a pocket .22 might be the smarter approach.
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Did they do it with a 1" barrelled revolver with itty bitty fixed sights.

I will not even respond to the idiotic bet. Chris
 
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