Survival of the Richest?

CPP

CPP

Joined
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I thought this article from the New Yorker might be interesting for the readers of this forum. Here's an excerpt to serve as an introduction:

Survivalism, the practice of preparing for a crackup of civilization, tends to evoke a certain picture: the woodsman in the tinfoil hat, the hysteric with the hoard of beans, the religious doomsayer. But in recent years survivalism has expanded to more affluent quarters, taking root in Silicon Valley and New York City, among technology executives, hedge-fund managers, and others in their economic cohort.
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mewolf1 said:
They won't last long. Nothing replaces knowledge.
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But don't underestimate how fast a person of average intelligence can learn and adapt if the situation requires, especially if they prepare ahead and educate themselves.

If someone has the ambition, IQ, determination, and attitude to 'win' or even excel at the yuppie suburban rat-race, they can learn to survive a few days in the outdoors. The difference, without hands-on practice they may not be as comfortable for the first few days as an experienced outdoorsman. :)
 
They deserve to make at that point, but from what I witness every day, few will last long term. ;) Heck, they run a GPS going down the freeway.:D
Bob W said:
But don't underestimate how fast a person of average intelligence can learn and adapt if the situation requires, especially if they prepare ahead and educate themselves.

If someone has the ambition, IQ, determination, and attitude to 'win' or even excel at the yuppie suburban rat-race, they can learn to survive a few days in the outdoors. The difference, without hands-on practice they may not be as comfortable for the first few days as an experienced outdoorsman. :)
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Just cause some one is well to do don't mean they don't go out there and practice or go backpacking. Many guys who know what to do can do it in a very slow motion. Seen lots of guys with guns at the gun range who cant walk to the car with out hard breathing. Of course the extra 150lb they carry in there gut don't help much.
That guy who goes to yoga studio and eat only vegetarian food. Might be in much better shape then most people are. Then when you corner him who says he cant be one of those who would do anything including kill anything on sight.
Just cause someone is well to do don't make them weak and cause someone works physical labor don't make them smart.. There is a reason why some people succeed.
A lot of it has to do more in how strong they are mentally then physically.
 
Richer people are definitely thinner and healthier than poor people, and this is especially true in the USA...

Apparently, the West coast is fitter than the East coast... Don't ask, it's what I heard...

Thinner and healthier means better survivability...

More worrisome is that when the chips are down, the veneer of civilization and morality will fall off harder and faster from non-religious types, which the rich city dwellers more often are...

Plus they have more stuff...

Gaston
 
I've been in campgrounds from Missouri to Montana, People in the western states [on average ] are noticeably healthier than those in the midwest . Especially females .
 
Gaston444 said:
Richer people are definitely thinner and healthier than poor people, and this is especially true in the USA...
Poor folks tend to have better street smarts than the rich. Don't know where you get your data. :confused:


Thinner and healthier means better survivability...
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More body fat=more calories on reserve.
More worrisome is that when the chips are down, the veneer of civilization and morality will fall off
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I'm not certain how religion comes into this? It's more of a human thing.
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I don't think any group of Americans whether they are rich or poor are better equipped to survive a "SHTF" event nor should be generalized. Being poor doesn't guarantee that they are more street smart nor does it guarantee that all of them are lazy as many would stereotype them. The same goes for wealthy individuals because the skill sets depend on their individual personalities and professions. I live in California and see the demographics of people from all walks of life.

I will say that the average working class American is better at fixing and repairing things, which would be very handy in a SHTF event. They may not be able to afford all of the high tech gear and gadgets, but they know how to grow their own food, fix engines, make batteries, hunt, fish, etc. Granted even then there isn't a guarantee at least out here that they know how to do that. I have some friends who amaze me at their skills to reincorporate things, where many would just consider it trash and toss it.

The wealthy individuals and what we consider wealthy is based on our personal experience. I interact with many so called wealthy individuals in the upwards 1% of household income demographics. No one as wealthy as the ones pointed out in the article but incomes ranging from $250,000 to a little over $1,000,000 per year. These individuals are relatively intelligent and extremely hard workers. They may not have the skill sets of building, repairing, or making things, but it's because it's easier and more efficient to higher others to do it. Their time is valuable in that they would rather work and make more money or spend more time with their families. They can also afford to buy more stuff and stockpile, but their outdoor skill sets or even to grow food might be lacking. I love the outdoors and no matter how much money I personally make I will always head to the woods to play in the dirt and snow. I will say that getting my wealthy friends to pitch a tent let alone backpack is pretty much a lost cause. I have friends who love the outdoors and they are for the most part regular middle class earning individuals. However, I don't care what people do or make for a living because I look at people as individuals. My wealthy friends will only rough it in their $100,000 plus RV's or rent homes in the woods. Doesn't make them bad people and most of their skill sets are in the healthcare field, so during a SHTF event it's always good to have physicians and dentists.

I will say that in general many of the people here on the West Coast are relatively fit compared to the Mid-West. It's whatever the new diet or workout program, but we still have our 300-400lb individuals. Yes, they might have more reserves on their bodies, but that's if they just sit there. If they have to move during a SHTF their knees, backs, and ability to help themselves would be greatly hindered. Also, many extremely obese individuals suffer from various health issues and need medications for hypertension, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart conditions, etc. Unless they know a compounding pharmacist with the proper ingredients to create their medications, than they will have an extremely difficult time making it through a serious SHTF event.

That being said, at least here in California the vast majority of the population regardless of them being rich or poor have a uncanny reliance on the belief nothing bad will ever happen or if it does the government will take care of them. I also believe the culture here is different in that many don't know their neighbors or have a sense of community as I've seen in the more rural areas of America. This would put our demographic at a huge disadvantage in surviving a SHTF scenario, especially in the densely populated areas. My guess is a large portion of our population in those areas would turn on one another and our criminal element would use it to take advantage of others. What fathoms me the most is that very few people have enough emergency supplies in these cities like San Francisco, the Bay area, or Southern California that sit on fault lines to last even a day. Granted if you're paying $4,000 per month in rent for a one bedroom apartment and need 3 roommates it's a little hard to store supplies. I can see why these ultra wealthy in the Silicon Valley have spent millions in prepping because if a SHTF event occurs they can weather the storm of all of these individuals who did nothing to prepare for themselves. Heck, some of our population loot, riot, block freeways, and commit acts of violence just because they had an excuse to do it. I'm not ultra wealthy but make a decent living and I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. I know my skills and limitations, but also know people with a similar mindset, who's strengths are my weaknesses. I think looking at ourselves as individuals and trying to survive alone during a SHTF event will be nearly impossible. The best case is to have others who are physicians, dentists, military vets, LE, mechanics, electricians, carpenters, compounding pharmacists, outdoor survivalists, hunters, fisherman, and people from all walks of life in a network. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not an expert in all of those fields, but I do know people who are.
 
An interesting quote from the article:
Some survivalists disparage Hall for creating an exclusive refuge for the wealthy and have threatened to seize his bunker in a crisis. Hall waved away this possibility when I raised it with him over dinner. “You can send all the bullets you want into this place.” If necessary, his guards would return fire, he said. “We’ve got a sniper post.”
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Is this just an example of crab-barreling?
 
CPP said:
An interesting quote from the article:

Is this just an example of crab-barreling?
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I believe it's wishful thinking that his "Guards" will be around to return fire. Unless they are single with no families to worry about it might be a little difficult to keep them "employed". I guess it would be dependent on the "SHTF" situation. Major earthquake he might be fine in his compound for a few weeks or months, but his guards may or may not stick around, unless he plans to house their families as well. Anything significant impacting the rest of the US like a nuclear strike, EMP taking out the power grid, or a complete collapse of the US economy or dollar, than those SHTF could be years before any kind of normalcy is restored. All I know is people will work and fight harder if it's for their family's, than they would for an employer.
 
Gaston444 said:
Richer people are definitely thinner and healthier than poor people, and this is especially true in the USA...

Apparently, the West coast is fitter than the East coast... Don't ask, it's what I heard...

Thinner and healthier means better survivability...

More worrisome is that when the chips are down, the veneer of civilization and morality will fall off harder and faster from non-religious types, which the rich city dwellers more often are...

Plus they have more stuff...

Gaston
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A little fat is not a bad thing in my opinion from a survivor point of view, but not obese as it leads to other physical problems that are not easily corrected. Wealthier people certainly can have more stuff, but most of the wealthy people I run across are more concerned about how their homes look and having a lot of stuff detracts from those impressions.

Frankly, if the chips are down (say EMP bursts), the majority of the population will not survive very long and that includes me. Having supplies for two weeks is not a long term recipe for survival, but it's a start.
 
CPP said:
An interesting quote from the article:

Is this just an example of crab-barreling?
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I read this article elsewhere before it was posted here, and I was actually a little curious how many of these people have balanced their physical resources with planning and skill resources.

I mean, having a safe full of guns and a 'sniper tower' isn't a magic talisman of safety any more than three cheap guns and a bunch of canned goods are without the personal knowledge, skills, and abilities necessary to use them in the apocalypse.
 
Not a benchmark by any means, but did anyone watch "Survivor" back when it was in the early seasons?

A lot of the "jocks" got to the island thinking they were going to kick @$$, until they had to go a little while without food, and their bodies started consuming the muscle mass.
Some of them fell apart pretty darn quickly. Even moreso when they got slightly ill.

Those with a little more body fat but less muscle mass seemed to fair better.
Maybe the slightly overweight rich person who does cardio and light/moderate weight training regularly has a better chance (?)
 
It all depends on what you're trying to survive. Social upheaval? Revolution? Invasion by a foreign country? Regional vulcanic activity? .... or climate change, OMG. Few are going to head for the woods and survive unless they are already set up for it prior to an event.
 
I think the people used to buying everything and having everything done for them for money are going to have the hardest time. Some might survive
 
22-rimfire said:
Few are going to head for the woods and survive unless they are already set up for it prior to an event.
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I'm figuring if it gets bad enough to call it a SHTF situation, most of the "woods" are already going to be on fire. In fact, fire pretty much goes with most chaotic SHTF situation whether in the city or out in the country, people tend to burn stuff when the crazy hits....it's probably fun.

Unless it's just Social Upheaval, the rest (Invasion by a foreign country? Regional vulcanic activity? .... or climate change), survival will be more based on where you are when it happens than what you are prepared for. For instance during a regional geographic catastrophic event (earthquake, tidal wave, volcano), if your are in a large city, you will be competing with 5+ million irrational people in a burning city for resources with no hope of escape prepared or not. If you are in the sticks already with everything you need, you'll be fine as there will be no one else to compete with for resources.

Pragmatically with increased wealth comes increased resources that may very well come shopping in your very well prepared locations taking it by overwhelming force of manpower, equipment and toys the wealthy enjoy that the rest do not. If it really becomes SHTF and eat/starve, kill/be killed, join forces/go at it alone become the normal daily routine, I'm thinking the wealthy smart people interested in their own survival regardless of training won't do so bad after all.
 
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