Survival of the Richest?

I don't think we will get an instant Its All Over Man! moment. More like a slow burn. But even if we do, those who survive will be those with the will to do so. There is a big difference between inherited wealth and earned, we all know that. Look at the attributes of a successful entrepreneur. They have drive, goals, know their skills and how to surround themselves with those who can fill in the gaps. Sure you have the leader types, but you also have the guys who know they do one thing well, and find someone who can support their doing that one thing. A lot of silicone valley types are skill collectors, and learning begets learning. Problem solving is a skill, sure if you have background to work from it can be easier, but that's not always a requirement. There was mention of sat-nav on the highway, Sure a simple thing like nav is second nature for some, but for others its easier to offload that so that they can focus more on the cars around them, or any of a hundred other mental tasks. Brain power is finite, and some prefer to share it out differently.
I don't think the "rich" will have any appreciable advantage over the "poor", its more about the individual. Survivors survive, regardless of location, time, event. For every rich person who just buys skills, there is one who collects them, and for every "poor" person who can rebuild half the appliances in their house, there is someone who wouldn't be able to fix a broken shoelace. There are urban people who have a bunker, and there are farmers who could subsist on their land. But even those who were the best off will be back in the stone age before long. There is no chance of personal survival, never has been. Its the survival of the species that is of greater importance, but most survivalists will do their level best to keep that from happening I feel like.
 
I remember years ago on a completely different, martial arts-related forum, the subject of a post-apocalyptic scenario came up, and 'what would you do?' Many people have very fanciful ideas from TV and movies and really believe it would be that way. For example, one guy said that, once in a community of other survivors, he would spend every day training all-out, full-contact fighting as part of the group that defends the 'compound'.

Firstly, if you do that, you are going to be injured. All the time. Secondly, there will be no more modern medicine as we know it. So even some injuries that are currently fairly minor, or serious but non-life threatening, will be potentially fatal. You will become a liability to the group rather than a protector. Empty-hand fighting will likely not be a priority. General survival is going to take up all of your time in some post-apocalyptic situation.

As far as fat stores, in an extended SHTF situation, that's only going to last so long. And the accompanying health problems of someone who is obese will be more of a liability than an advantage. A little overweight isn't a problem (most people in the U.S., whether rich or low-income, seem to be overweight to varying degrees), but someone who can't even walk an easy mile on a straight path without collapsing in a heap will not make it very long in an extended or permanent SHTF situation, unless everyone else is going to be doing everything for them. Also, as mentioned above, there will be no more modern medicine, so if someone is clinically obese with attendant health problems, there will be no medications in a post-apocalyptic situation. Even a widespread, extended SHTF situation will present the same problems.

Jim
 
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Gaston444 said:
More worrisome is that when the chips are down, the veneer of civilization and morality will fall off harder and faster from non-religious types, which the rich city dwellers more often are...
Gaston
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What a load of crap. Religious people don't have a lock on morality. Total BS.


This thread is nothing but stereotypes. I know rich and poor people that fall into both categories. The idea that money equals a certain type is a joke.
 
A gross generalization, but Atheists have to answer to themselves. Religious folks only to whatever god they've got. It seems that very often its far easier to justify ones actions as being okay when its an external thing. But that's just a gross generalization. Ever wonder if we break down under stress because its expected? How many looters go out looting just because it seems like the thing to do?
 
I've seen and known some religious people who twisted their religious beliefs to justify their own bad behavior and intolerance of others who are different, and be self-righteous about it. And I've met others who were great people. Same with atheists. People are individuals, and being "religious" or not alone does not really determine how someone will fare in a SHTF situation.

Also, many 'religious' types roll their eyes at those who claim to be 'spiritual but not religious'. I've gotten that response when asked about my beliefs, which is why I no longer discuss them. But just because someone is 'religious' does not mean they are 'spiritual'. I've known many religious people who can quote the Bible word for word, but don't believe in anything beyond what they can see, feel and hear in the everyday physical world; yet they claim to 'fear the Lord'.

As far as looters go, those who are stealing *nonessential items* like TVs, game systems, fancy basketball shoes, etc., during a crisis, and doing so delightfully, are really a bunch of opportunistic sociopaths, regardless of their socio-economic status. They were simply waiting to do it.

Jim
 
ha. millions of $ buys a lot of training, fast. for a long time now, "fittest" has meant "with the most money".
 
Oh great... 4 months after surviving the end of the world I will have to deal with some wall-street jack-hole who just came out of his secret bunker acting like he still owns the world.
 
Once the dust clears I'm betting that the average survivor will look more like Forrest Gump than Sargent York. Meaning that under whatever circumstances that force us all to lose the social balance we've built up over several centuries, surviving is going to be a healthy combination of just plain dumb luck and whatever skill and determination we can muster. I'm all for never giving up and letting the chips fall. That's what happens every day in life anyway. I don't mean to not prepare because it's obvious that we need to as much now as anyone living before us ever did.
 
If you have money, the want to set up a long term survival shelter and plan, and you have some brains you will do far better. I would love to prepare for a very bad situation but find just paying the bills and eating day to day a challenge.
 
Well, I think it very unlikely that the characteristics that would enable one to make a pile of money on Wall St correlate to those needed to survive physically in a SHTF situation, when that money has absolutely no value. You wouldn't perish just because you were rich, but you likely wouldn't survive because of that either.


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RickJ said:
If you have money, the want to set up a long term survival shelter and plan, and you have some brains you will do far better. I would love to prepare for a very bad situation but find just paying the bills and eating day to day a challenge.
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How much time do you spend each week watching t.v. ? How much do you spend on non-essentials including cigs, booze, entertainment ? If you're able to access this computer based forum, you have the necessary resources. IMO the question, for every one of us, is what do we have in our hearts & minds ?


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Pointshoot, which characteristics are those? I would would have thought that a willingness to learn, ambition, being adaptable, even ruthless in business would be mental aspects that would allow a person to survive a tough situation. Setting aside the theory that a higher portion of executives might be psychopaths, compared to the general population, I would feel that the hyper-competative nature that leads many to gain wealth at all costs, would transfer. (not counting for survivor bias, which does make it hard to gauge since I don't know what the breakdown is of people who have all that and don't make a lot of money, or what all the variables are)

How do you see those mental aspects break down? What attributes of successful business people would be a detriment to them? I think we can agree that we can leave out those who inherited wealth, and rather just discuss self-made people.
 
gadgetgeek said:
Pointshoot, which characteristics are those? I would would have thought that a willingness to learn, ambition, being adaptable, even ruthless in business would be mental aspects that would allow a person to survive a tough situation. Setting aside the theory that a higher portion of executives might be psychopaths, compared to the general population, I would feel that the hyper-competative nature that leads many to gain wealth at all costs, would transfer. (not counting for survivor bias, which does make it hard to gauge since I don't know what the breakdown is of people who have all that and don't make a lot of money, or what all the variables are)

How do you see those mental aspects break down? What attributes of successful business people would be a detriment to them? I think we can agree that we can leave out those who inherited wealth, and rather just discuss self-made people.
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This is a huge topic, impossible to go into with any detail here. Basically, success in business isn't related to how someone will react in situations involving physical conflict or survival. This is true, even though the language of war and battle is sometimes used by those making their living in offices. Similarly, those types depicted in Hollywood movies as 'heroic', also push an image that is false.

A good source to start with this topic is the book "Deep Survival".

P.S. - I have observed the irrelevance of business success to one's ability to handle survival situations first hand. I've seen men who have great financial success and are completely 'in charge' in their businesses, go completely limp & hapless in situations where their behinds were physically on the line. (I also know good businessmen who are good in these situations. The one doesn't relate to the other.)


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gadgetgeek said:
Pointshoot, which characteristics are those? I would would have thought that a willingness to learn, ambition, being adaptable, even ruthless in business would be mental aspects that would allow a person to survive a tough situation. Setting aside the theory that a higher portion of executives might be psychopaths, compared to the general population, I would feel that the hyper-competative nature that leads many to gain wealth at all costs, would transfer. (not counting for survivor bias, which does make it hard to gauge since I don't know what the breakdown is of people who have all that and don't make a lot of money, or what all the variables are)

How do you see those mental aspects break down? What attributes of successful business people would be a detriment to them? I think we can agree that we can leave out those who inherited wealth, and rather just discuss self-made people.
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I hate to say this but there isn't any real economic upward mobility in American society, nor has there been for decades. You may have a few Bill Gates here or there but they are statistical outliers. So your assumption that ambition, skills, or determination are the driving force behind what makes a person wealthy is more than likely mistaken. The ruthless CEO who worked his way up from the mail room is more Hollywood myth than fact. Most CEO's are children of other CEO's and their children will go to Ivy league school and become CEO's because of family and societal connections more than their skills or drive.

I agree with Pointshoot that being a Kardashian or Clinton does not translate "survival advantage" if the world comes to an end. Having a ton of money and therefore the resources to build a "bug out" bunker greatly increase your survival odds for short term disasters, that you could simply ride out in your bunker until the Government restores order. However if the world comes to an end and the Government is no longer able to establish order those societal advantages would no longer have any relevance. If anything those societal advantages that got you that $even figure CEO job which paid for your Uber Bunker, AR15 combat carbine course and 5 day "Survival" course with Bear Grills may be less advantageous when compared the "hood rat" who had to learn to survive by their wits and gut feeling since the age of 5.
 
I think we have answered the question. The blankets don't fit the bed. As in, for every guy living out of his car who just keeps going on like nothing happened, there will be a billionaire, a desk jockey, a youtube star, a keyboard warrior and a soccer mom who survive as well, and for every "expert" who doesn't make it 48 hours, the same will apply. There really is no telling who will survive, But that's life isn't it? None of us survive it.
 
CPP said:
I thought this article from the New Yorker might be interesting for the readers of this forum. Here's an excerpt to serve as an introduction:
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I saw this trend a few years ago, when the first IT groups that friends of mine work for down town here approached me about learning a few things. And then hired me to do a series of workshops for them on urban situational awareness, preparation, resource acquisition, wild edibles, water purification, wilderness survival, and methods of transitioning from one environment to another more safely on foot.
 
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