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Survive! Knives Forum Closed - What Changed?

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grogimus said:
I personally can't find a better knife than the 4.1. Their business of providing knives sucks. I want them, and I can't get them. Life sucks, I'll get a helmet. I dunno squat about business, good thing we're on a knife forum. But they've been called thieves and scammers and that's a lie. They suck seriously at letting you know when you'll get your knife.. but you will get it! And if you don't like the wait.. get a refund, take your blood pressure down and your business elsewhere.
Click to expand...

You are incorrect, as has already been stated.
 
grogimus said:
Sounds like some great customer service. You're not personally wronged when someone in a community operates a scam, unless there's a scam. Who has asked for a refund, and not gotten it? Pay for it and wait, or don't. If they violate that I'll be 100% behind what you're saying.
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"What You Must Do If You Learn You Cannot Ship on Time
When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

Some businesses adopt internal deadlines that are earlier than those set by the Rule to ensure that their delay notices give all customers a meaningful opportunity to consent to the delay. If businesses fail to ship or give delay notifications by their internal deadlines, they automatically cancel the orders and make refunds.

In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.
They were required to automatically refund the money paid thirty days after the agreed delivery date.
. . .
[If , aster receiving an order, you learn that you cannot deliver as agreed,] nstead of seeking the customer’s consent to delay, you can always cancel the order and send a refund. In that case, you must notify the customer and send the refund within the time you would have sent any delay notice required by the Rule.
. . .
How Quickly You Must Make a Refund
When you must make a Rule-required refund, the following applies:
  • If the customer paid by cash, check, money order, or by credit where a third party is the creditor, or by any other method except credit where you are a creditor, you must refund the correct amount within seven working days after the order is cancelled.
  • If the customer paid by credit where you are a creditor, you must credit the customter's account or notify the customer that the account will not be charged within one billing cycle after the order is cancelled.
How Much You Must Refund
If you cannot ship any of the merchandise ordered by the customer, you must refund the entire amount the customer "tendered," including any shipping, handling, insurance, or other costs. If you ship some, but not all, of the merchandise ordered, you must refund the difference between the total amount paid and the amount the customer would have paid, according to your ordering instructions, for the shipped items only.
. . .
Why You Should Comply with the Rule
Merchants who violate the Rule can be sued by the FTC for injunctive relief, monetary civil penalties of up to $41,484 per violation (any time during the five years preceding the filing of the complaint), and consumer redress (any time during the three years preceding the filing of the complaint). When the mails are involved, the Postal Service also has authority to take action for problems such as non-delivery. State law enforcement agencies can take action for violating state consumer protection laws."

Federal Trade Commission explaining "30 Day Rule."

If a seller says on-line that it will deliver by X date knowing, or having reason to know, they will not make that date, it is arguably Wire Fraud, a federal felony punishable by years in prison and large fines - per count

"Scam" = ?
 
I believe the only issue with this "30 day rule" is the fact that the only timelines that may have been clearly stated were the weekly orders, 2nds, etc. stating dates of "deliveries within 90 days". Obviously none of us would have expected orders stretching into years for GSO orders (many seconds and weekly orders being delivered well after a year from order date) and absolutely no reasoning/excuses are acceptable in my opinion either as they've had way too much time to figure this out by now.
 
shinyedges said:
Did survive! knowingly deceive people at any point to keep taking more money from people? Yes they did. That's a scam.

You said they are not scammers. You lied grogimus grogimus .
Click to expand...

You are making some ludicrous assumptions. I paid for a bunch of knives, and I got them. I paid for a bunch more and didn't want to wait so I canceled the orders and got paid back, immediately. They were upright with me at ever step of the way. What do you call that? It's not a scam, it's business.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't go calling me a liar again, thanks.
 
grogimus said:
You are making some ludicrous assumptions. I paid for a bunch of knives, and I got them. I paid for a bunch more and didn't want to wait so I canceled the orders and got paid back, immediately. They were upright with me at ever step of the way. What do you call that? It's not a scam, it's business.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't go calling me a liar again, thanks.
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You didn't want to wait? Which timeframe were you given? The same "It'll be to you in 90 days" like a bunch of others were promised or did they somehow give you an exact date (like they didn't give ANY of their other customers)? Just curious. Were you told it'd be two years or longer, or nah?
 
grogimus said:
You are making some ludicrous assumptions. I paid for a bunch of knives, and I got them. I paid for a bunch more and didn't want to wait so I canceled the orders and got paid back, immediately. They were upright with me at ever step of the way. What do you call that? It's not a scam, it's business.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't go calling me a liar again, thanks.
Click to expand...
You lied. I've stated only truths in this thread. They got booted for a reason.

You keep lying, I'll keep calling you on your lies.
 
No amount of lying or defending will reopen their subforum. This thread will likely get closed soon, and it will be written into history.
 
Thomas Linton said:
"What You Must Do If You Learn You Cannot Ship on Time
When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

Some businesses adopt internal deadlines that are earlier than those set by the Rule to ensure that their delay notices give all customers a meaningful opportunity to consent to the delay. If businesses fail to ship or give delay notifications by their internal deadlines, they automatically cancel the orders and make refunds.

In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.
They were required to automatically refund the money paid thirty days after the agreed delivery date.
. . .
[If , aster receiving an order, you learn that you cannot deliver as agreed,] nstead of seeking the customer’s consent to delay, you can always cancel the order and send a refund. In that case, you must notify the customer and send the refund within the time you would have sent any delay notice required by the Rule.
. . .
How Quickly You Must Make a Refund
When you must make a Rule-required refund, the following applies:



    • If the customer paid by cash, check, money order, or by credit where a third party is the creditor, or by any other method except credit where you are a creditor, you must refund the correct amount within seven working days after the order is cancelled.
    • If the customer paid by credit where you are a creditor, you must credit the customter's account or notify the customer that the account will not be charged within one billing cycle after the order is cancelled.
How Much You Must Refund
If you cannot ship any of the merchandise ordered by the customer, you must refund the entire amount the customer "tendered," including any shipping, handling, insurance, or other costs. If you ship some, but not all, of the merchandise ordered, you must refund the difference between the total amount paid and the amount the customer would have paid, according to your ordering instructions, for the shipped items only.
. . .
Why You Should Comply with the Rule
Merchants who violate the Rule can be sued by the FTC for injunctive relief, monetary civil penalties of up to $41,484 per violation (any time during the five years preceding the filing of the complaint), and consumer redress (any time during the three years preceding the filing of the complaint). When the mails are involved, the Postal Service also has authority to take action for problems such as non-delivery. State law enforcement agencies can take action for violating state consumer protection laws."

Federal Trade Commission explaining "30 Day Rule."

If a seller says on-line that it will deliver by X date knowing, or having reason to know, they will not make that date, it is arguably Wire Fraud, a federal felony punishable by years in prison and large fines - per count

"Scam" = ?
Click to expand...

I had no idea that was a law/rule/regulation. If Survive! didn't refund payment immediately when requested I'd see the point of this.
 
grogimus said:
I had no idea that was a law/rule/regulation. If Survive! didn't refund payment immediately when requested I'd see the point of this.
Click to expand...

A shame you're so short-sighted then. Read that post again, I don't see anywhere it states "The customer has to ask for the money back." Gee, that's odd. It's almost like it's a law for a business to follow, and not something the customer is expected to chase down when their threshold has been met and they don't want an interest free loan in S?K's hands anymore. Just so odd.
 
Well my update on my correspondence from SKs is now lost on the previous page (lol). How about anyone else, has anyone contacted SKs on their orders? I just believe what updates we have received in Friday/Weekly updates were extremely weak, nothing with substance. I always recommended they update us by order#'s, or order dates, etc. Obviously because there were no real substantial updates to give. I'd like to hear from those who have some orders on the books and what you are doing about it. If I lived anywhere remotely close to them, even in a nearby state, I'd pop in and get a first hand view of what the story is.
 
grogimus said:
You are making some ludicrous assumptions. I paid for a bunch of knives, and I got them. I paid for a bunch more and didn't want to wait so I canceled the orders and got paid back, immediately. They were upright with me at ever step of the way. What do you call that? It's not a scam, it's business.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't go calling me a liar again, thanks.
Click to expand...

You presented the facts as they applied to your particular case. There was a time when their refund process was taking a lot longer than you (and I) had experienced. At times, it used to take some naming and shaming posts or threads on their subforum to expedite the process. We are both well aware that at that time, S! must have burnet through a lot of cash reserve that perhaps had coincided with their PP account restrictions. If anyone should delayed beyond reason or get jerked around regarding their refund request, they ought to be able to come in here to report. I'm waiting for Dave (HardKnock) to let us know if he experienced a smooth refund process as we expect.
 
Quiet said:
A shame you're so short-sighted then. Read that post again, I don't see anywhere it states "The customer has to ask for the money back." Gee, that's odd.
Click to expand...

It's a shame you're so condescending but that's a long standing issue, isn't it? You're right, I don't see where the customer has to act on asking a refund, I just (eek!) assume people have enough backbone to ask for themselves.
 
grogimus said:
It's a shame you're so condescending but that's a long standing issue, isn't it? You're right, I don't see where the customer has to act on asking a refund, I just (eek!) assume people have enough backbone to ask for themselves.
Click to expand...

Condescending like you were? Or nah?

LOL Drumbeaters are all the same. Enjoy the shut-down forum of your disgraced little company.

P.S. So many better knives out there that it doesn't take a dog's age to get, it's ridiculous.
 
grogimus said:
It's a shame you're so condescending but that's a long standing issue, isn't it? You're right, I don't see where the customer has to act on asking a refund, I just (eek!) assume people have enough backbone to ask for themselves.
Click to expand...
You assumptions have zero to do with the legalities of the situation. The impetus is on Survive to quickly and clearly communicate delays to each customer and offer them a full refund. To do otherwise is straight up illegal.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
You assumptions have zero to do with the legalities of the situation. The impetus is on Survive to quickly and clearly communicate delays to each customer and offer them a full refund. To do otherwise is straight up illegal.
Click to expand...

No, no, something chest-beating, something backbone. It's the customer's fault, not S?K's. LOL
 
scout1sg said:
Well my update on my correspondence from SKs is now lost on the previous page (lol). How about anyone else, has anyone contacted SKs on their orders? I just believe what updates we have received in Friday/Weekly updates were extremely weak, nothing with substance. I always recommended they update us by order#'s, or order dates, etc. Obviously because there were no real substantial updates to give. I'd like to hear from those who have some orders on the books and what you are doing about it. If I lived anywhere remotely close to them, even in a nearby state, I'd pop in and get a first hand view of what the story is.
Click to expand...

They were terrible updates Jim, thus.. cancel all orders. My action anyways.

Casinostocks said:
You presented the facts as they applied to your particular case. There was a time when their refund process was taking a lot longer than you (and I) had experienced. At times, it used to take some naming and shaming posts or threads on their subforum to expedite the process. We are both well aware that at that time, S! must have burnet through a lot of cash reserve that perhaps had coincided with their PP account restrictions. If anyone should delayed beyond reason or get jerked around regarding their refund request, they ought to be able to come in here to report. I'm waiting for Dave (HardKnock) to let us know if he experienced a smooth refund process as we expect.
Click to expand...

I hope Dave got treated the same way I did, which is all I can comment on rather than common conjecture.
 
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