Switch from BD1 to BD1N?

It's 0.1-0.15 nitrogen. 0.2 is the max using PESR (pressurized electro slag remelting)
Out atomoshere is mostly Nitrogen and nitrogen a contaminate in all steels but in very, very small amount like 3 parts per million because it's not very soluble in iron.
Which is why the max is low if adding nitrogen gas with pressure to molten steel 0.2% N

The 0.10-0.15 is is plenty to do what it needs and bumps the working hardness on bd1n to 60-63rc without being "edge" brittle since the nitrogen is very small like carbon and fits interstitially between the iron atoms preventing them from moving as much, this strengthens the steel through solid solution strengthening

Here is a simple analogy that Dennis Epstein and Ken Onion came up with

Take a bowl of corn flakes and you can easily compress it with your fist.

Now take sugar and fill the gap in the corn flakes. Now when compressed with a fist it resists being crushed

The behavior of the sugar is like what the nitrogen does in the steel with the solid solution strengthening.

It also forms nitrides which are like carbides but softer.

It's been a slow process for manufacturers to catch on to what nitrogen steels can do.

It's not going to cut forever or anything crazy like what Maxamet does but has a neat way of getting hardness and edge stability without clumpy carbides

I feel in the next 10 years, things could get very interesting once steel manufacturing and knife companies play more with Nitrogen steels that can push higher hardness and more nitrides for wear resistance. Currently no one is really connecting the dots and the focus has been on nitrogen steels that can operate in salt water and max hardness of 60hrc.

So nitrogen steel hasn't reached it's full potential.
Bd1n is exciting because it's a step in the right direction, but it's name is tarnished by the low performance that knife testers show for Bd1.
However it's currently the hardest nitrogen steel that's available and more affordable then others if you can find it.

However, Vancron 40 is the direction we need to see, it's chemistry is like a nitrogen A11/ 10v. So it would have an excellent blend of high working hardness and wear resistance and should behave like a more stable, easier to sharpen A11.

Unfortunately, not much is being done publicly. Our Russian friends seem to like it alot at 64-65rc


Lapedog said:
I’m not sure how much nitrogen one would have to add to see a noticable effect but the mass of nitrogen in bd1n is between 0.01 and 0.015% which is an absolutely miniscule ammount.

Also the N in s35vn stands for Niobium. There is no nitrogen in s35vn. Some elements like niobium and vanadium can alter a steel’s grain structure even in tiny ammounts while larger ammounts will create carbides.

Also it is helpful to learn the difference between molar% and mass%. For example carbon only forms 1.34% of s35vn’s mass but because it is a fairly light atom it is almost 6% of s35vn’s molar% meaning almost 6% of the volume of s35vn is carbon.

Basically mass is a measurement of how much of that steel’s weight would be carbon. Whereas molar mass would mean how much of the volume of a piece of s35vn would be carbon. Since carbon is light almost 6% volume is only contributes to 1.34% of the total weight of a given piece of s35vn.
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dkb45 said:
The addition of nitrogen is what makes the world of difference. Kind of how S35VN is worse than S30V on paper, the nitrogen added makes up for a lot. If you could make the same steel two ways, one with nitrogen and one without, the nitrogen steel would likely perform better if all elements could be equal otherwise. It seems to be similar to how a PM steel performs better than ingot versions, but more simple nitrogen steels like BD1N don't seem super expensive to produce while still performing way outside of what budget steels usually do.
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There is usually very little different between s30v and s35vn. They are practically the same. S30v being a tiny bit less edge retention and harder to sharpen. Though The addition of niobium to s35vn makes it easier to work with.
 
RipD said:
Cut test results from Cedric & Ada.


DVpem98.jpg
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Cool. A bit OT, but interesting that LC200N is so high on that chart. I thought in Spyderco's tests it ranked below VG-10 in edge-holding. I suppose it really does depend on the who/what/how (if that makes any sense).

Jim
 
DeadboxHero said:
Here is a simple analogy that Dennis Epstein and Ken Onion came up with

Take a bowl of corn flakes and you can easily compress it with your fist.

Now take sugar and fill the gap in the corn flakes. Now when compressed with a fist it resists being crushed

The behavior of the sugar is like what the nitrogen does in the steel with the solid solution strengthening.
Click to expand...
That is an awesome analogy. Everybody can get it and it's easy to visualize. Thanks for sharing.

James Y said:
Cool. A bit OT, but interesting that LC200N is so high on that chart. I thought in Spyderco's tests it ranked below VG-10 in edge-holding. I suppose it really does depend on the who/what/how (if that makes any sense).
Click to expand...
True. Pete of Cedric & Ada will be the first to tell you that his test is just measuring one use for the blade with one material. It's very narrow. He welcomes additional data from others to corroborate or refute the results he's getting. If you check out the steel rating tab on that spreadsheet you'll see that the best edge holding steels aren't necessarily his favorites. Like most of us he prefers a balance (toughness, sharpen-ability, etc.)
 
45344865961_afc161a5ee_c.jpg


Got it! Woo Hoo!! Mail man dropped it off a bit ago. Looking forward to carrying and using it over the next week or so. Pretty nice out of the box. Shaved fine hair left and right handed (no burr), and cut phone book paper super easy one way, and decent the other. LOVE the size and weight of these UKPKs! (I have the S110V also).

Shawn (BBB): Based on your experience, what grit/finish would you think suits this metal? Or will it depend on what I'm doing with it?

u.w.
 
Very nice man, it's really depends more on what your doing with it and your preferences.

My favorite finish is in the range of 800-1500 because it gives me some teeth ath the edge for some good bite but is also refined enough for push cutting.

I like to follow it up with a 1um diamond spray strop on leather.

Nice and crispy bro.


uncle willie said:
45344865961_afc161a5ee_c.jpg


Got it! Woo Hoo!! Mail man dropped it off a bit ago. Looking forward to carrying and using it over the next week or so. Pretty nice out of the box. Shaved fine hair left and right handed (no burr), and cut phone book paper super easy one way, and decent the other. LOVE the size and weight of these UKPKs! (I have the S110V also).

Shawn (BBB): Based on your experience, what grit/finish would you think suits this metal? Or will it depend on what I'm doing with it?

u.w.
Click to expand...
 
Super Crispy always - Is there any other way? Nope! I already did a slight reprofile (say 12 to 15 dps) and stopped at 600 for no particular reason - it's way super sticky - like friken tape. I'm going to refine a bit more as you've suggested. I definitely appreciate the response, and will go that route.

u.w.
 
I've found BD1N also plays well with a mirror polish. When I use it I touch the edge up on Black, white, then green compounds and I get a shaving edge really fast. Edge stability also seems pretty good, too. I want Spyderco to change everything over from BD1 to BD1N, but if they do I'm going to have way too many knives.
 
And here I just decided that I didn't need a UKPK for a walking around knife, and should just stick to SAKs. You guys are bad for me! Gotta wait though, can only justify one round of shipping costs, so nothing until the native salt drops, then it will be one of those, a sheepsfoot carribean, and a duckfoot. Although I'll probably not keep them all. Someone is going to have to go, and sadly, it might actually end up being my para-3! Depends on how the carribean likes my hand though, gotta love these salt friendly knives though.
 
DeadboxHero said:
It's 0.1-0.15 nitrogen. 0.2 is the max using PESR (pressurized electro slag remelting)
Out atomoshere is mostly Nitrogen and nitrogen a contaminate in all steels but in very, very small amount like 3 parts per million because it's not very soluble in iron.
Which is why the max is low if adding nitrogen gas with pressure to molten steel 0.2% N

The 0.10-0.15 is is plenty to do what it needs and bumps the working hardness on bd1n to 60-63rc without being "edge" brittle since the nitrogen is very small like carbon and fits interstitially between the iron atoms preventing them from moving as much, this strengthens the steel through solid solution strengthening

Here is a simple analogy that Dennis Epstein and Ken Onion came up with

Take a bowl of corn flakes and you can easily compress it with your fist.

Now take sugar and fill the gap in the corn flakes. Now when compressed with a fist it resists being crushed

The behavior of the sugar is like what the nitrogen does in the steel with the solid solution strengthening.

It also forms nitrides which are like carbides but softer.

It's been a slow process for manufacturers to catch on to what nitrogen steels can do.

It's not going to cut forever or anything crazy like what Maxamet does but has a neat way of getting hardness and edge stability without clumpy carbides

I feel in the next 10 years, things could get very interesting once steel manufacturing and knife companies play more with Nitrogen steels that can push higher hardness and more nitrides for wear resistance. Currently no one is really connecting the dots and the focus has been on nitrogen steels that can operate in salt water and max hardness of 60hrc.

So nitrogen steel hasn't reached it's full potential.
Bd1n is exciting because it's a step in the right direction, but it's name is tarnished by the low performance that knife testers show for Bd1.
However it's currently the hardest nitrogen steel that's available and more affordable then others if you can find it.

However, Vancron 40 is the direction we need to see, it's chemistry is like a nitrogen A11/ 10v. So it would have an excellent blend of high working hardness and wear resistance and should behave like a more stable, easier to sharpen A11.

Unfortunately, not much is being done publicly. Our Russian friends seem to like it alot at 64-65rc
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. I'm a guy who values ease of sharpening over long term edge retention but if I can get a little more of the latter without sacrificing the former then sign me up!

I actually don't mind BD1 and I think it performs better than the world believes but I again agree with you that the stigma associated with it is hurting BD1N. If BD1N was named J92M or Corex 17 I think people would be all over it.

I really like the stuff.
 
Just a bump, even if old news.
I recieved a UKPK drop point from Golden today. Date code DR; BD1N Steel.

Great little knife, BTW. It’s a gift so I won’t put it to use (until I pick one up for myself ;)) but with the blade stock and grind it’s got...Wow! It has to be a slicey little devil.
 
In an old post on Spyderco’s forum someone said all of the drop point UKPK’s with a code of AR or newer are BD1N.

You could always have a distributor/retailer check for you.
 
I gotta say - I really like this steel!

I've carried it for a bit now, sharpened it a few times, used it a lot... I have no complaints,

It's super easy to get thin-ish (my hair is red-ish blond) free hanging hair whittling sharp; and after a week (6-7 days) of use (~ dozen-ish boxes, some wood, mail, food, etc...) it's still sharp enough to easily shave my arm hair, and push cut phone book paper both ways (with the grain & against the grain).

I just re-sharpened mine. Went to DMT extra-fine and then stropped on bass wood with flitz polish (cuz that's what I have). It just GRABS the hair - SO STICKY -

45847079131_fc61eb5e2f_c.jpg


u.w.
 
Looking forward to this showing up on the LW Manix, at circa $100 they are really not winning the value proposition battle against Benchmade with the 560 and 535 using S30V at $12 more.
 
I just saw an eBay listing that shows the Spyderco Chicago with BD1N. Not sure if that's correct or not.
 
The Manix is the one to be excited about, if 1N is as much of a jump in performance as we all think then that knife is going to be an awesome value and $100 or less!
 
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