Sword build: Forged titanium alloy Zweihänder

David Stifle said:
Sam, I'm not familiar with having two guards. Can you explain it to this dummy?
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Some of the big war swords had a forward guard (usually forged integral to the blade), and a larger lower guard.

This allows you to grab higher up on the blade, and still have a guard to protect the forward hand. The lower 6 inches of blade are typically not sharpened, and often had a wrap around them.

This allowed the long sword to be shortened for closer work, and for thrusting slashing etc.


Lot so pictures out there, and even video's showing some of the techniques.
 
Bigfattyt said:
Some of the big war swords had a forward guard (usually forged integral to the blade), and a larger lower guard.

This allows you to grab higher up on the blade, and still have a guard to protect the forward hand. The lower 6 inches of blade are typically not sharpened, and often had a wrap around them.

This allowed the long sword to be shortened for closer work, and for thrusting slashing etc.


Lot so pictures out there, and even video's showing some of the techniques.
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Hm. Looking at these old patterns wouldn't the forward guard render that part of the blade underneath it useless. Couldn't cut anything with it as I see it. Why not just make a bigger handle instead which would allow to grab more forward or backward and that without having to hold the blade in your hand/gloves.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Hm. Looking at these old patterns wouldn't the forward guard render that part of the blade underneath it useless. Couldn't cut anything with it as I see it. Why not just make a bigger handle instead which would allow to grab more forward or backward and that without having to hold the blade in your hand/gloves.
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My suspicion is that it was a twofold reason.

1. Moving the large guard forward presumably would have affected the balance of the sword

2. Coolness factor. If you have a 3 foot blade and a 3 foot handle you don't get to say that you have a 4 1/2 foot blade. Plus then it seems less like a big honkin' sword and more like a weird spear.

Coolness factor is important, especially for a Zweihander wielding Landsknecht Dopplesoldner. They were flashy specialists. All those poofs and slashes in their outfits are about coolness and being BAMFs. Having two guards, with tusks, on a 5 foot blade is extra cool. It's like a dopple dose of dopplesoldner swagger.

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There were also several practical reasons to have a ricasso.

First, if you just "made a longer handle" that would alter the balance of the blade negatively, and wouldn't give you a convenient index for the placement of the hands you'd use most frequently.

As for why have the ricasso, there are a number of reasons. It would allow you to loop a finger around the guard to gain better control of the tip. It would provide a stronger forte, thus leaving your sword less likely to be damaged, especially because it would reduce the odds of getting nicks that would result in cracks forming that could cost you the entire blade. It would provide a stiffer base for the blade generating more thrusting power, and would give you the option of using it as a polearm or lance.

For students of western martial arts, it also opens up many more possibilities for use of the sword, from providing a stronger defense when necessary, to providing leverage to throw or unbalance an opponent from the clinch, to a variety of other useful techniques. You wouldn't use it in that way all the time, so you wouldn't want the extra weight and balance change that moving the handle would cause, but you would prefer it to be unsharpened to avoid cutting yourself. That's also the location that blades would end up crossing most frequently, and unlikely to be a cutting location; the top third of the blade was the main section that needs to be sharp. Better for it to be unsharpened.
 
It's amazing how quickly the reason for things are lost to time. Here we muse about the purpose of the foreguard, but in the 1500s, to the smiths making the zweihanders and the landsknecht using them, it probably needed to explanation. The best way to understand is probably to get acquainted with such a sword, and then the answer becomes plain to see. It's hard to imagine the sword without the foreguard: it would totally change the way it's used if those tusks weren't there. I think Scholagladiatora's explanation in the video above is good. The foreguard and main guard together create a large out-facing triangular "ward" the sword wielder can use to his advantage, instead of just the flat area of a crossguard.

Here they are, shaped and polished up, at 10 ounces for both. A little bit of minor refinement around the tang slots, some heat-colorization and they're ready. These multifaceted titanium guards, which are generally triangular in shape and have thick bosses, can break anything that tries to get past them. With their blunt points, they're part of the sword's offensive power and dramatically escalate what this thing can do at close range.

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Next comes the silicon bronze pommel! :)
 
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Si bronze ?? WOW You do nice work !
All this nice Ti work but then the other day I came across an article about making a Ti replacement beak for a parrot !!! What a waste !
 
Sam! How are your joints holding up?
You might have to go, Ti, someday. :D
rolf
 
The guards look amazing. Displayed by themselves they could make for some cool modern art.

The parrot looks funny. Reminds me of a former coworker with similar hairstyle, eye color and piercings!
 
This thread just keeps getting more and more awesomer!:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Looking forward to seeing more updates on this one. I envy whomever ends up with this beast, be it Mecha or some lucky forumite.
 
I love the enthusiasm, sword folks. :]~ This sword was expected to be just like my regular ones except bigger, but it's hard to know what to expect from this much metallic real estate. For one, it's length is half the width of my metalworking area, so it gets bonked on things. When securing the hilt, it even got bonked into the ceiling a few times! :D

Another thing is the sheer amount of surface area to grind. A 34" sword feels much bigger than 28" one - the zweihander is about 60", and it tapers at each end to the thickest part at the foreguard. About two pounds of titanium alloy was ground off of the blade billet.

Here is the hilt, fully secured; it will now get an over-wrap of black deerskin, and can be easily gripped all along its length, pressed with the palms, and the guard hooked with a finger. The pommel is a simple bullet shape of solid silicon bronze secured with a copper pin, which will patina to a dark golden color match the guards. The balance point is between the two handguards.

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The gentleman who's behind this sword project has had a name for it since it was a blueprint: the ancient Greek word for the dragonfly, derived from the word for "tooth."

Odonata, the dragonfly zweihander. I hope the sword is reminiscent of a dragonfly, a colorful beast that can move with ferocious speed and graceful quickness like no other insect can.

Just a few minor details to finish and then it's time for a video!
 
I love it. But then being of Germanic stock, why wouldn't I like a well made zweihander?

If you ever get some spare time :rolleyes: could you post up a "how to" on leather wrapping hilts? Especially on "end fastenings" or "How to keep your leather from unwrapping because the sun rose in the east". Your work there looks to be very precise.
 
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