Synthetic handle Al Mar Sere Attack 3003b breakage

[Gaston444]

I purchased this a few weeks ago:

Today I checked its ability to withstand light chopping, and the results were surprising to say the least: I can't upload my recent pictures, but basically the lock-bar's pivot pin sheared off under the strain of chopping in about 20 chops on Maple, the lock-bar coming out of the upper handle, and the blade pivoting backwards towards the back of the handle about 30 degrees...

Here is the interesting finding I made: I have two micarta models on top of the Synthetic version, two 3003a and one 3003b, and the diameter of the lock-bar pivot pin is externally apparent on the micarta versions (that pin is invisible on the synthetic handle, until it breaks that is): On the Micarta models, the pivot pin of the lock-bar is roughly 3/32" in diameter.

On the synthetic handle version, 3003b, the lock-bar pivot pin is barely a sliver over 1/16" in diameter. What's worse, I checked the hardness of this smaller pin, and it appears to be unhardened steel, being easily scarred by an X-acto blade, while the large pin on the micarta model is hardened (unhardened pins are often seen on Seki-City made lockbacks, even on the main pivot pins of 1980-90s Spydercos for instance).

I am sure the synthetic handle 3003b is nowhere near as strong as the Micarta handle 3003a: Given that they weight the same, and are both supposed to be equally tough, I would say the 3003b's weight of 11 ounces is not justified by its strength, and that this synthetic handle model should absolutely be avoided.

Neither model is particularly sharp, being a flat low-sabre grind, so they need a professional re-profile as well. Both my micarta models are perfectly tight, while the synthetic handle had slight up-down play.

Gaston

 

[A.L.]

Today I checked its ability to withstand light chopping

..the results were surprising to say the least

Wow.

Congratulations for ruining your nice knife.

 

[fishface5]

yikes good to know, thanks for taking one for the team!

 

[AntDog]

Wow.

Congratulations for ruining your nice knife.

Yep. My sentiments exactly.

Gasston, your findings should direct you to the conclusion that you shouldn't chop with a folder. You really didn't know this already? You should test some stick tang fixed blades next.

Also, pics or it didn't happen.

 

[craytab]

Wow.

Congratulations for ruining your nice knife.

Yup, chopping hard wood with a plastic handle folder. Not a good idea. There are literally a plethora of other tools that would be millions of times better. Good luck with the Almar warranty. I can hear them now "you did what?"

 

[Topcatpt]

the results were surprising lmao

 

[Akcir]

Yup, chopping hard wood with a plastic handle folder. Not a good idea. There are literally a plethora of other tools that would be millions of times better. Good luck with the Almar warranty. I can hear them now "you did what?"

I'm going to give Gaston the benefit of a doubt. He stated that it was light chopping, and the lock bar pin was very thin, and not hardened. You would think that a knife of this sort would be able to withstand more than opening letters with your pinky in the air. As for the warranty, I wouldn't bother. Just use the 1/16" hole as a pilot for a 3/32" hole. Then replace with a hardened pin. I don't advocate abuse, but you should be able to use your tools with some degree of confidence.
If the pin is as wimpy as Gaston described, that is a definite flaw.

 

[craytab]

I'm going to give Gaston the benefit of a doubt. He stated that it was light chopping, and the lock bar pin was very thin, and not hardened. You would think that a knife of this sort would be able to withstand more than opening letters with your pinky in the air. As for the warranty, I wouldn't bother. Just use the 1/16" hole as a pilot for a 3/32" hole. Then replace with a hardened pin. I don't advocate abuse, but you should be able to use your tools with some degree of confidence.
If the pin is as wimpy as Gaston described, that is a definite flaw.

A little hyperbolic don't you think? I think a plastic handled folding knife should perform as a folding knife, you know, to cut things, not a chopping tool like a fixed blade or an Ax. Don't be surprised when you use the wrong tool for the job and the tool breaks.

And my comment about the warranty was a joke. Their warranty clearly states that they do not cover abuse, which this indeed was.

 

[LoneStarNinja]

I'm going to give Gaston the benefit of a doubt. He stated that it was light chopping, and the lock bar pin was very thin, and not hardened. You would think that a knife of this sort would be able to withstand more than opening letters with your pinky in the air. As for the warranty, I wouldn't bother. Just use the 1/16" hole as a pilot for a 3/32" hole. Then replace with a hardened pin. I don't advocate abuse, but you should be able to use your tools with some degree of confidence.
If the pin is as wimpy as Gaston described, that is a definite flaw.

Putting in a larger diameter pin is going to cause problems with your lock up. Info in case you want to do some chopping as well.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

 

[Armadew]

How was the result surprising??

 

[shinyedges]

Buy a fixed blade..

What response did you expect? Well I guess since you didn't expect that knife to fail you probably thought everyone would be like "oh my gosh" that plastic handled folder failed chopping maple... LOL

You can't make this stuff up. Hilarious. Thanks gassy.

 

[Melvin-Purvis]

That knife, in that configuration, was made around 1988. Any warranty it had died when Al Mar did. I won't be warrantied by the new AMK founded in the mid 1990's. Use a fixed blade.

 

[Akcir]

A little hyperbolic don't you think? I think a plastic handled folding knife should perform as a folding knife, you know, to cut things, not a chopping tool like a fixed blade or an Ax. Don't be surprised when you use the wrong tool for the job and the tool breaks.

And my comment about the warranty was a joke. Their warranty clearly states that they do not cover abuse, which this indeed was.

I would consider the name of the knife hyperbolic. The point I was trying to make is that a 1/16" unhardened lock bar pivot pin will not withstand very much down force of the handle when, you know, cutting stuff. I am not familiar with that particular knife, but if there isn't a stop pin, the lock bar pivot pin will be subjected to a load when putting the edge to work.

 

[Akcir]

Putting in a larger diameter pin is going to cause problems with your lock up. Info in case you want to do some chopping as well.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

OP stated pivot pin, not a stop pin. I carry a fixed blade 98% of the time, so no worries about a little chopping. Like I said, I don't advocate abuse.

 

[craytab]

I would consider the name of the knife hyperbolic. The point I was trying to make is that a 1/16" unhardened lock bar pivot pin will not withstand very much down force of the handle when, you know, cutting stuff. I am not familiar with that particular knife, but if there isn't a stop pin, the lock bar pivot pin will be subjected to a load when putting the edge to work.

Can you back that up with examples or experiences? I find it hard to believe just cutting things would make such a failure. Hundreds of knives have a far weaker system and seem to survive everyday for millions of users.

Also be sure to notice how everyone is saying the knife should not have been expected to withstand such abuse. Further, you may want to look into the OPs other posts and see what other outrageous claims he has made.

 

[Akcir]

Can you back that up with examples or experiences? I find it hard to believe just cutting things would make such a failure. Hundreds of knives have a far weaker system and seem to survive everyday for millions of users.

Also be sure to notice how everyone is saying the knife should not have been expected to withstand such abuse. Further, you may want to look into the OPs other posts and see what other outrageous claims he has made.

I haven't researched
the OPs other posts, could be full of shit , I don't know.
Examples or experiences? Like I said, "I'm not familiar with that particular knife."
Experience as a Manufacturing Engineer tells me that a soft piece of steel, at .062" will not hold up to much as far as wear, or load. This knife does not appear to be small and dainty.
Al Mar seems to have a good reputation, so this appears to be an anemic pivot pin, unless the OP is telling tales.

Also be sure to notice that I have stated, "I don't advocate abuse."

Not trying to start a keyboard squabble, I'm just a crusty old fart that prefers to do that face to face.

 

[craytab]

I haven't researched
the OPs other posts, could be full of **** , I don't know.
Examples or experiences? Like I said, "I'm not familiar with that particular knife."
Experience as a Manufacturing Engineer tells me that a soft piece of steel, at .062" will not hold up to much as far as wear, or load. This knife does not appear to be small and dainty.
Al Mar seems to have a good reputation, so this appears to be an anemic pivot pin, unless the OP is telling tales.

Also be sure to notice that I have stated, "I don't advocate abuse."

Not trying to start a keyboard squabble, I'm just a crusty old fart that prefers to do that face to face.

No need for the language. This is the family friendly portion of the forum. Also, saying that you "prefer to squabble in person" sounds vaguely like a threat. We all have a searchable history here that can be used to determine the validity of our statements. This is a valuable tool for being able to tell whose claims you can get behind. Last, we are not talking a huge difference between 3/32 and 1/16. How do we even know he measured it correct? How did he measure the hardness, especially on the pins in the other knives? What other knives with 1/16 pins are out there? Do they fail? This is an almost 30 year old knife. Lots of variables here.

And to hammer it home, he was abusing the knife, to an unknown degree. What other knives would fail in such unknown abuse?

Point being, don't use your unwarranted, plastic handled, 30 year old knife to chop hardwood. We agree on the most import point here

 

[TimmyJ]

Can we get pictures of this "damaged" knife? What made you preform this "test"?

 

[RIPtastic]

No need for the language. This is the family friendly portion of the forum. Also, saying that you "prefer to squabble in person" sounds vaguely like a threat. We all have a searchable history here that can be used to determine the validity of our statements.

Don't be such a drama Queen.

 

[craytab]

Don't be such a drama Queen.

Sorry, what?