Tacoma mall shooting today....

m1marty

m1marty

Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Messages
4,029
I was supposed to take the family shopping there today. Daughter was sick, so we stayed home. An entire mall full of people and NOT ONE person drops the hammer on this guy. I can't understand that......there has to be other people that carry other than myself. Unreal....makes me lose faith in people sometimes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10129879/
 
My Dad was there, I found out later, he wasn't packing his .38 special which he usually has on him. He's a pretty damn good shot, but if he had been in the vicinity of the shooter he most likely would have got the hell out of there, he's 63.
 
Fortunately it appears that the shooter had poor shooting skills, a puny rifle, and the targets were completely random. A skilled shooter with a real agenda could have killed many, many people in the same amount of time.

-Bob
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Call 911 And Wait For The Police.
Click to expand...
Because we should all rely on the Police to protect us.....:rolleyes:
Not a slam on the boys (and gals) in blue...but I'll take my own chances thanks.
 
Very terrible! Only a 45 minute drive away...I was "happy" to watch it on TV rather than being there in person.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Call 911 And Wait For The Police.
Click to expand...

I think someone hacked Esav's account.

Police are great, but a whacko with a gun can do a lot of damage in just a few minutes. Even if there are offices physically in the mall on foot and on patrol already, they could take several minutes to get to the scene.
 
m1marty said:
An entire mall full of people and NOT ONE person drops the hammer on this guy. I can't understand that......there has to be other people that carry other than myself. Unreal....makes me lose faith in people sometimes.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to make judgements because I wasn't there.

I have often thought as I have walked into a shopping mall, "Why am I carrying this thing? It's useless in this evvironment."

Shotting in a crowded shopping mall would be a really tough thing.

So, I'm not going to make any judgements about any carrriers who might have been there. They made a choice in a very difficult, very stressful, very complex situation. I'm sure they did what they thought was best under the circumstancea and I'm not going to second-guess. 5th quarter, arm-chair quarterbacking isn't a productive exercise.
 
We've taken the "response to an active shooter" training that came out post-Columbine. First four on the scene form a diamond and go in to engage the shooter. Still, you have to wait for your guys; going in alone might not be the best idea. In many areas of the country, scaring up four officers might take a while....
A skilled shooter with an AK could really cause a lot of chaos at a crowded mall, scary to think about. The panic-flight might cause as many injuries as the shooter.
 
Keep in mind, also, that a civilian CHL is for SELF-defense, not public defense. If you happen to be, when the shooting starts, in the immediate vicinity, then you are personally in immediate danger and can shoot. But if you happen to be some distance away, you can not draw and rush in even if you are aware that other people are in danger.

Also, Washington (like Oregon (the two have such similar CHL laws that an Oregon CHL holder need only submit a cursory application form and pay a fee to receive a Washington CHJL and vicea versa)) has a so-called "big chicken" law which says that if you can retreat to safety rather than shoot, you must do so first.

In Oregon and Washington, a CHL is not a license to play hero.
 
I found out that a close coworker was just a few feet away when the shooting started. Thankfully, she lived in Isreal for many years, so she was one of the few who didn't freak out, and she calmly exited the area. BTW, this was very near Santa taking Christmas wishes from kids. Lovely, huh?

- Mark
 
Gollnick said:
In Oregon and Washington, a CHL is not a license to play hero.
Click to expand...
Nor do I plan on being one. I understand computer coaching is an easy thing to do, and I wasn't there so my opinions mean squat. On the flip side of that coin, I don't think I could just stand there or run in panic in a situation like that. Am I advocating a running gun battle in a crowded mall? No, I'm not. But if I had a good shot with a good back drop, you can bet it's lights out for the clown. Maybe being in the service has put me in a different mindset, but I still find it disgusting that the general concensus is "Run away...save yourself!" That's wrong plain and simple. I couldn't live with myself if I was there and did nothing. Some things, "legal" or not are worth fighting for. Sorry if you see different.Things could have gotten a whole lot worse if the guy had even a basic background in shooting.:grumpy:
 
m1marty said:
I don't think I could just stand there or run in panic in a situation like that.
Click to expand...

I hope you wouldn't do either.


...but I still find it disgusting that the general cooncensus is "Run away...save yourself!"
That's wrong plain and simple.
Click to expand...

But that is basically the law in Washington and Oregon. If you yourself can safely escape rather than use deadly force, then that is your responsibility.

Oregon (I don't know about Washington) case law makes some alowance for the use of deadly force to defense of someone whom you have an established emotional relationship, e.g. family member, personal friend, etc.

If I had a good shot... it would be lights out for that clown.
Click to expand...

If you have a good shot at him, then he has a good shot at you and that puts you in such immediate danger such that escape isn't a viable option. The fact that your bullet hit him would be prima facie evidence that his could have hit you. But, deliberately maneuvering yourself into that position would be intent which would spoil a self-defense argument.
 
Gollnick,
I understand what you are saying. I hope that I am not portraying myself as a trigger happy vigilante, as that is not the case. I just don't think that I could stand there and let someone do something like that. I honestly don't think I would have considered the legal ramifications at that point either. One person saved is worth that to me. I understand the state laws here....I work part time in the largest gunshop in the NW so I am pretty knowledgeable on them. Still doesn't change my mind. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thank you for a polite conversation as I was a little heated yesterday.:thumbup:
 
A person who deliberately maneuvers himself with intent to use of deadly force against another person, especially if that first person could have escaped earlier, is potentially guilty of murder.

BUT, keep in mind that prosecutors are politicians too. They face re-election, they face possible recall. A prosecutor does not have to prosecute a case, especially if he can show some mitigating factors. A mad man running amok in a crowded shopping mall with a gun who has already shot at least one person and who is threatening potentially hundreds of people including elderly and children could be defined as a mitigating circumstance. No prosecutor who is up for re-election or who could face a recall wants to convict a venerated public hero. So, the real chance of there being a prosecution of a CHL holder (or anyone else) acting heroically and in good faith in such a situation is small.

Just know that it's there. Also know that if you screw up, your CHL isn't gonna shield you.
 
There was an incident not too long ago at a Wal-Mart that I read about.

A man was stabbing a woman. Another man who was carrying a gun witnessed this and shot the attacker. The police said that the shooter's story checked out, probably from all of the witnesses, and so there would be no charges. The attacker was apparently no threat to the shooter but the law may have been different there.

I don't recall where this incident occurred.
 
Gollnick said:
Also, Washington......has a so-called "big chicken" law which says that if you can retreat to safety rather than shoot, you must do so first.
Click to expand...

A few months ago I heard something about a new Florida law referred to as the "stand your ground" law. I was never clear on just what it meant but it sounds like the opposite of the Washington law.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top