Tacoma mall shooting today....

Ryan8 said:
I don't recall where this incident occurred.
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That would be a key detail.

This is also another case where a prosecutor may choose not to prosecute. Keep in mind that one of the criteria that prosecutor uses to decide that is the likelihood of convincing a jury to convict. Defending helpless old ladies is sort of a "motherhood-and-apple-pie-thing."


Thomason said:
A few months ago I heard something about a new Florida law referred to as the "stand your ground" law. I was never clear on just what it meant but it sounds like the opposite of the Washington law.
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I don't know anything about the Florida law. I do know that Florida's laws are substantially different from Oregon and Washington.

I should also add that in both Oregon and Washington, the "Big Chicken" law does not apply inside your own residence/home or place of business. In Oregon in particular, the courts have been very liberal about what is "inside your own residence/home." Clearly in Oregon you do not need to be physically inside of the building to be considered to be inside your home.
 
As I understand it, the Florida law is VERY different. It not only says you do not have to retreat in your home or in your car, but also in any other place you have a right to be, and you cannot be sued for defending yourself under these circumstances.

There are some questions about how this will play out in ambiguous situations. What constitutes a valid threat?

On the other hand, Florida has had liberal gun laws for a while now, so it's not as if a lot of people with little experience with firearms are suddenly being asked to judge seriously unfamiliar situations.

(Florida has had liberal gun laws: I also couldn't resist using the term in this context ... :p )
 
Gollnick said:
That would be a key detail.

This is also another case where a prosecutor may choose not to prosecute. Keep in mind that one of the criteria that prosecutor uses to decide that is the likelihood of convincing a jury to convict. Defending helpless old ladies is sort of a "motherhood-and-apple-pie-thing."
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I found a link. It was New Mexico.

I don't think that they ultimately prosecuted.

You're right. Even though someone may technically be in violation of the law, juries don't always convict if it goes against their conscience. I think it's a good thing. If you're the guy carrying the gun, however, it's not something that you should count on.
 
That kid is DAMN LUCKY that I wasn't there...Me and one or two 155 grain Federal JHPS from my 10mm Glock model 20 would have taken that bozo out and sent him on a non-stop expressway to hell.

And I'm not just being funny, or "macho".
 
glockman99 said:
That kid is DAMN LUCKY that I wasn't there...Me and one or two 155 grain Federal JHPS from my 10mm Glock model 20 would have taken that bozo out and sent him on a non-stop expressway to hell.

And I'm not just being funny, or "macho".
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My old lady and I were discussing the very same thing. She asked if I was there, if I would have engaged the guy. My short answer was 'hell yes'.

I also wondered why someone there didn't engage the guy, then I remembered that Tacoma/ Pierce county is next to pansy assed liberalville. (Seattle- King County.) :rolleyes:

Of course, Marty is an exception. :)
 
CODE 3 said:
I also wondered why someone there didn't engage the guy, then I remembered that Tacoma/ Pierce county is next to pansy assed liberalville. (Seattle- King County.) :rolleyes:

Of course, Marty is an exception. :)
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Good thing I live in Kitsap County.:D
They had a quick interview with a Soldier on TV. He stood there all wide eyed and said something to the tune of "I was scared.....I ran as fast as I could" . In uniform no less.:thumbdn: :mad:
 
Well,luckily in NY you don't have to run away and leave people to be shot and killed when you have the means to stop the attack.In any case,I was just about 5 minutes from entering the mall at the Kingston,NY Mall shooting earlier this year,that made the Nationwide News.
In fact, I was about to pull in the entrance of the mall(below "Best Buy") as the first couple Police Units arrived on scene.My wife would have been inside the Mall 20 minutes earlier near the shooting scene,she asked me to go and I had to get dressed and ready delaying arrival.I was carrying that day,and if I was there I would do my best to prevent innocent people from being shot.




edited/correct story account info
 
CODE 3 said:
...Tacoma/ Pierce county is next to pansy assed liberalville. (Seattle- King County.) :rolleyes:
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Hey, not all of us in Seattle are pansy-assed liberals!

Oh...I'm in "Seattle - Snohomish County." That must be different from "Seattle - King County"!
 
I doubt that there is a prosecutor in any state in this country who'll willingly prosecute an armed citizen who shot and killed a shooter bent on cold-blooded murder, especially not when there are grateful survivors giving their undying praise and thanks to the selfless hero on television. All it takes is one person to get on the witness stand and say "I'd be dead if it weren't for so-and-so" and that's all she wrote, because no jury is going to convict someone for saving a life.

I like that quotation from the lousy "The Time Machine" remake several years ago in which the main character chastises the Eloi for their lack of response when others of their kind were being hunted by the Morlocks. "How can you just do nothing?!?"
 
and a holder of a CPP from the state of WA... I am also familiar with Washington's Good Samaritan Laws... and in this case, one could make a strong argumant that Gollnick's "Chicken law" and the Good Samaritan law would be in conflict.. wonder which one would win out?
 
Ron Andersen said:
Hey, not all of us in Seattle are pansy-assed liberals!

Oh...I'm in "Seattle - Snohomish County." That must be different from "Seattle - King County"!
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I think the liberals outnumber the conservative right in King County.

My sister in law lives in Snohomish County, and she packs. :D

I should have been more narrow in my comments I suppose. We have pansy assed liberals here in Eastern Washington, but the conservative right outnumbers them by a wide margin.

Sorry to those in the Seattle area I may have offended.


Ron, my apologies, and Marty, I stand corrected.
 
I read a article in the paper today regarding one of the people who were shot by this wacko. Apparently this particular victim was packing but it was unclear if he was able to draw his gun or not. He is in critical condition and may end up paralized. Another ironic twist for this forum, he was on his way from his job at the mall knife shop to make a deposit at the bank.
 
I wonder if he had training . Unfortunately many who carry don't have training. If we could believe the article one shouldn't " confront " a BG who is shooting people , you should just shoot him !!! For those of you who carry get the best training you can find .
 
TOMBSTONE said:
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_112205_news_tacoma_mall_shooting_.4567129.html
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A couple of interesting points come out of that article:

1) a CHL does not make you bullet-proof

2) a concealed-carry handgun is not the answer to all problems. To all who boast after the fact about what they'd have done if they were there, keep in mind that this was a chaotic situation, very confusing, I'm sure there were lots of people of all discription carrying all sorts of things moving in all directions. Do you really know what's going on? Can you trust something you just heard from a hysterical stranger? How do you find your target in the crowd? Can you hit a moving target while moving yourself and without becoming a target yourself? It's not as simple as just pulling a trigger.

3) the shooter was high on meth. To all who want to discuss the tactical aspects of this situation, add to everything else I listed above the fact that this heavily-armed shooter was high on meth. You are not dealing with a normal, rational person here. My guess -- and it's only a guess because the article does not say -- is rhat our carrier made the mistake of brandishing, of saying, "stop or I'll shoot!" thinking that a rational person would obey him and that would bring about an easy end to the situation. That may not work with someone high on meth.

4) the shooter was high on meth. To all who advocate the wholesale legalization of "recreational" drugs, I offer this case as yet another argument. This meth stuff is just really evil.
 
Gollnick - you've made your point already, ok? I now know that my CPL doesn't make a hero, bulletproof, well trained or otherwise. I'll make sure to repeat this to myself (as I am fleeing in hysteria) if I ever find myself in a situation were I might have to defend myself or others. Because, obviously you can't be wrong.:rolleyes:
 
mete said:
I wonder if he had training . Unfortunately many who carry don't have training. If we could believe the article one shouldn't " confront " a BG who is shooting people , you should just shoot him !!! For those of you who carry get the best training you can find .
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I wouldn't have confronted that shooter/kid...I'd have "engaged" him with a couple well-placed bullets before he had time to react.
 
m1marty said:
Gollnick - you've made your point already, ok? I now know that my CPL doesn't make a hero, bulletproof, well trained or otherwise. I'll make sure to repeat this to myself (as I am fleeing in hysteria) if I ever find myself in a situation were I might have to defend myself or others.
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My point is that we should not be to critical of any CHL holders who were there and who made decisions in what was -- I'm sure -- a very complex, chaotic, yes, frightening, situation to act or not act. A CHL and a gun on you is about having options, not obligations. I'm not gonna sit here in my comfortable chair having now read several informative articles researched by reporters with all the facts and information about this incident neatly filtered and gathered and organized and second-guess the decisions made in a split-second by those CHL holders who might have been there.

[Qoute] Because, obviously you can't be wrong.[/QUOTE]

Oh, thank you for pointing that out. I may quote you on that in the future.
 
Gollnick said:
[Qoute] Because, obviously you can't be wrong.
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Oh, thank you for pointing that out. I may quote you on that in the future.[/QUOTE]
And I'm sure you'll take great pleasure in that. I'm not second quessing anyone here, I just take issue with your "do nothing" stance. As I have stated before in this thread, I can not stand by and let things like this happen if I have a chance to stop it. Do I run around playing world cop with my Lone Ranger mask and tackle jaywalkers? Nope, but you can bet if I see someone beating their kids/spouse, or say....shooting up a mall, you can bet a dime to a dollar I'll do what I can to help. Maybe this can be credited to my being in the service or how I was raised, but I firmly believe that no one should turn a blind eye to others in need. I can't fathom doing anything else.
*Edit* and please stop trying to "learn" me on what MY obligations/resposibilities are when I carry. I'm pretty sure I am fairly well versed in what the law says regarding this issue. Thanks.
 
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