Tatanka vs XL Voyager lock test by Cold Steel

[stabman]

This is why chasing steels makes sense, to a point, while lock chasing doesn't.

Well, I don't want a knife closing on my hand.

Both the Tri-Ad and the Power Lock showed that they won't close on my hand.
They even proved by the test that neither will close on my hand even if I grow far stronger and stupider.

I think that the argument as to which lock is the most uber strong lock in the history of history itself gets silly at times, but I certainly do appreciate the increased margin of safety (and choice of locks) that comes from the search.

 

[Wanimator]

Well, I don't want a knife closing on my hand.

Both the Tri-Ad and the Power Lock showed that they won't close on my hand.
They even proved by the test that neither will close on my hand even if I grow far stronger and stupider.

I think that the argument as to which lock is the most uber strong lock in the history of history itself gets silly at times, but I certainly do appreciate the increased margin of safety (and choice of locks) that comes from the search.

It's much more efficient to just cut your hand off then look for locks that will save your hand, dontcha know?

 

[Seilu]

I personally like videos like this and find that if you buy knives based on "class" then you're really not buying based on the knife itself. Too often do I see people buying poor knives from people with "class" and the opposite as well. It's great knowin about how strong the knife is even if you won't put it in that situation; kind of like how they test cars on terrain 99% of people would never be driving across, just to show that if that need arise in an emergency, it'll get the job done. (CS and Spyderco are both awesome)

 

[Jens Schuetz]

If you think you are putting more force than you can lift with one hand you are very wrong. What is your curl record, 20-30lb? Good luck doing 400lb by hand.
All those tests show is that one can break a knife if one wanted to do so at any cost, those tests do not make CS any superior to Spyderco because in everyday situations one will never have to deal with such stresses.

I am not a Spyderco fan in case that becomes a question.

There are 200 pound and heavier people who can do a bunch of one armed pull ups. Add to this a certain speed, leverage and what not and the force on a knife could easily be more than 400 pounds.
Just imagine ramming the knife into a tree and then carefully standing on it. Ok it can take your 230 pounds that way. Now jump with your same 230 pounds from only a foot high and the knife will most likely break.
Forces which may sound extreme at first are easily achieved with little effort.
I'm fine with slip joints and don't need a knife as ladder but I can see how stronger can be useful for some.

Btw we know what force this lock can take from the spine and from the edge side but how about from the sides? Wouldn't people try to stand on the side of the handle since that gives more foothold than the spine or edge side?

 

[stabman]

Btw we know what force this lock can take from the spine and from the edge side but how about from the sides? Wouldn't people try to stand on the side of the handle since that gives more foothold than the spine or edge side?

Who the hell stands on knives as a step anyway?

I've seen people dig holes with knives.
I've seen them scoop a hole out of a pile of rocks with a knife (the edge wasn't so great after...)
I've see knives thrown, used as pry-bars, and other abusive types of things.

I have never, never, no matter how stupid the person was who around, seen anyone use a knife as a step for climbing anything.

It's much more efficient to just cut your hand off then look for locks that will save your hand, dontcha know?

I'm not quite that efficient.

 

[ohmyheckinslc]

That cutaway bit is very interesting, as it shows how much of the blade material, around the pivot and stop pin, has been removed. Perhaps this explains why the blade on both the Tanaka's the Mr. Demko tested, broke, near their base, rather than the lock itself failing.

There's no doubt that the Tanaka has a tough lock mechanism, but the "strong enough" argument is only a little compelling, methinks... Who for instance, would drive a Sub-compact car because it's fast enough for the legal speed limit in most areas, and crash worthy enough if you don't crash (because nobody would ever intentionally crash their own car), and big enough for anybody's needs (most of the time)...?

Obviously we can't all readily make do with an old fashioned slip-joint, as there's a HUGE market for locking folders which clearly aren't slip-joints. I'll wager, if you take Swiss Army out of the mix, there are substantially more locking folders sold, than non-locking ones, in America, at least. I don't think it's that strange to find use, for a knife, from day to day, which puts negative (closing) pressure on a blade. I applaud Cold Steel for testing their knives in a somewhat public arena. I think Benchmade should keep up with those videos they've produced where they test theirs as well.

I think it would've been so cool for Andrew to setup the video, then introduce Sal, and both of them together, carry out the tests; then shake hands and part as friends.

No it isn't.
Have you examined both locks, how they actually function?
They are entirely different, which is why the Tri-Ad handles certain things better, and why the Power Lock is far easier to disengage.

[video=youtube;9YFsS6hwqfQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YFsS6hwqfQ[/video]

https://spydercollector.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/spyderco-2014-production-sample-tatanka/

[video=youtube;A9ADImyBY0I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ADImyBY0I[/video]
(Go to about 09:00 minutes to see the lock with cutaway view in action)


Two different locks.
Each offer different advantages and downsides.

 

[ohmyheckinslc]

I know of a couple of situations where a knife has been used in a similar manner, both probably mentioned here on BFC, previously. Once, when a fellow had lost his footing and was sliding off of a roof. He stabbed his knife (it seems like it was an Emerson if memory serves) into the roof, and used it as a hand-hold, keeping himself from falling off of the roof. The other time, a fellow was trying to get up a muddy embankment, and either get out of the water he'd fallen into, or avoid going into said water, and used his Buck 110, stabbed into the mud/dirt, to gain purchase, and allow himself to escape his predicament. Better to have and not need, then need and not have, methinks...

Who the hell stands on knives as a step anyway?

***

I have never, never, no matter how stupid the person was who around, seen anyone use a knife as a step for climbing anything.


***

 

[stabman]

There's no doubt that the Tanaka has a tough lock mechanism, but the "strong enough" argument is only a little compelling, methinks... Who would drive a Korean Sub-compact because it's fast enough for the legal speed limit in most areas, and crash worthy enough if you don't crash (because nobody would ever intentionally crash their own car), and big enough for anybody's needs (most of the time)...

I would...I've been stuck taking the city bus for 13 years now.
A sub-sub-compact car would be better. :thumbup:

As for the locking mechanism, there are always trade-offs.
The Power Lock is far easier to disengage; you don't have to depress the lock-bar nearly as far.
Since it holds over 300 pounds of hanging weight, and will break the blade before the lock with ridiculous impact, it certainly is strong enough when the ease of use is factored in.

At least in my opinion, for my uses...others will obviously have a different view.

And none of this takes away from Demko's achievement in designing a lock that has proven very strong and impact resistant; he definitely invented something quite cool.

I know of a couple of situations where a knife has been used in a similar manner, both probably mentioned here on BFC, previously. Once, when a fellow had lost his footing and was sliding off of a roof. He stabbed his knife (it seems like it was an Emerson if memory serves) into the roof, and used it as a hand-hold, keeping himself from falling off of the roof. The other time, a fellow was trying to get up a muddy embankment, and either get out of the water he'd fallen into, or avoid going into said water, and used his Buck 110, stabbed into the mud/dirt, to gain purchase, and allow himself to escape his predicament. Better to have and not need, then need and not have, methinks...

Ah, but both those cases will have likely involved forces put in the direction of cutting, against the edge.
If not, if they were using the spine of the blade, then the Tatanka would certainly suffice to do likewise, as the lock is stronger than either of those mechanisms.



One other benefit as regards my uses; the Power Lock keeps the knife closed better than the Tri-Ad lock, making it far harder to flick.
As knives that can be flicked are considered illegal gravity knives in Canada, that is an advantage, especially for a knife I carry around town.

 

[co556guy]

Oooh! Robotic spine whacker!

I suppose if that is the kinda stuff you do with your knife that vid is valuable. At least its "scientific."

Technically, this test IS more scientific (repeatable/measurable) than "the kinda stuff you do with your knife."

Now, from an operational standpoint, I prefer the mode of operation that the Tri-ad lock uses over the power lock that spyderco uses (I have an internal hatred of lock-back designs for opening/closing ease, and the power lock looks like an improved version of a lock-back)........But I prefer the blades that spyderco puts out (and consequently, I carry a manix 2, because I have lock-backs, but love spyderco blade shapes).

It's quite honestly that I don't like where the lock mechanism is, and the fact that I can't close it one handed without completely changing my grip. No matter how little I have to move the lock button, it's still in a rather unergonomic place.

 

[stabman]

Technically, this test IS more scientific (repeatable/measurable) than "the kinda stuff you do with your knife."

Now, from an operational standpoint, I prefer the mode of operation that the Tri-ad lock uses over the power lock that spyderco uses (I have an internal hatred of lock-back designs for opening/closing ease, and the power lock looks like an improved version of a lock-back).........

But, the Tri-Ad lock is the exact same to operate as a lock-back...

 

[co556guy]

But, the Tri-Ad lock is the exact same to operate as a lock-back...

Then maybe I'm getting one of them confused (I'm not a cold steel person, so forgive me).

I was under the impression that the Tri-ad was akin to the captive ball bearing/benchmade axis (operable with the forefinger & thumb rather than on the spine.

My apologies if I was wrong.

 

[stabman]

Then maybe I'm getting one of them confused (I'm not a cold steel person, so forgive me).

I was under the impression that the Tri-ad was akin to the captive ball bearing/benchmade axis (operable with the forefinger & thumb rather than on the spine.

My apologies if I was wrong.

Yeah, the Tri-Ad looks like a lock-back with a stop pin.
There is more to it than that (which is why it's so strong), but it operates the same, except that you have to push it down further than any lock-back knife I have had, even the Chinook or Mini-Manix, which had lots of lock engagement.

You might be thinking of the Arc-lock, or something like that (SOG uses it, and it seems pretty strong).

 

[Peregine82]

If you want to hang motors from your blade while it's held in a clamp or jump up and down on it while it's in a tree, save yourself some money and by a fixed blade knife that is tough as hell. Also, hopefully, the knife doesn't fall out of the tree and you fall onto the blade hurting yourself.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I was already sold on the Triad lock, now I'm sold on the Powerlock as well.

I enjoyed seeing the video and was pretty impressed by how well the Tatanka held up.

 

[Leefist]

I have to agree here. Wasnt a fan of CS before, definitely not anymore so.

I think the who has the "strongest" lock pissing contest is pretty silly. We would all be just fine with slipjoints. Nobody is going to put their knives through that type of force, so "who has the strongest lock" arguement is a very moot point.

Lets see who has the better heat treats, more refinded designs, who has the larger selection of exotic blade steels across a wider platform of styles of knives?

Lets not forget the men behind the business either.... Sal is, simply put, a badass.

I believe the strongest lock argument is pretty valid. Some of us work and use these knives in critical conditions. Having a strong, durable lock is without a doubt one the most important elements in choosing a weapon/tool.
Lynn Thompson is in the mind set of creating a weapon and a tool. With those considerations in mind, the Tri-Ad is simply the best. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[stabman]

I believe the strongest lock argument is pretty valid. Some of us work and use these knives in critical conditions. Having a strong, durable lock is without a doubt one the most important elements in choosing a weapon/tool.
Lynn Thompson is in the mind set of creating a weapon and a tool. With those considerations in mind, the Tri-Ad is simply the best. The proof is in the pudding.

Ah, but when their knives held 100 pounds of weight, that was enough for "serious tool and weapons use".
So either the old Cold Steel knives were too weak--and their advertising making false claims--or else most locks from reputable manufacturers are strong enough for "real world use".

I tend to go with the idea that most knives from reputable manufacturers are strong enough.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Ah, but when their knives held 100 pounds of weight, that was enough for "serious tool and weapons use".
So either the old Cold Steel knives were too weak--and their advertising making false claims--or else most locks from reputable manufacturers are strong enough for "real world use".

I tend to go with the idea that most knives from reputable manufacturers are strong enough.

There is "serious" and then there is more serious.

 

[jac_solar]

There are 200 pound and heavier people who can do a bunch of one armed pull ups. Add to this a certain speed, leverage and what not and the force on a knife could easily be more than 400 pounds.
Just imagine ramming the knife into a tree and then carefully standing on it. Ok it can take your 230 pounds that way. Now jump with your same 230 pounds from only a foot high and the knife will most likely break.
Forces which may sound extreme at first are easily achieved with little effort.
I'm fine with slip joints and don't need a knife as ladder but I can see how stronger can be useful for some.

Btw we know what force this lock can take from the spine and from the edge side but how about from the sides? Wouldn't people try to stand on the side of the handle since that gives more foothold than the spine or edge side?

A typical[SUP][clarification needed][/SUP] bolt cutter yields 20 kilonewtons (4,500 lb[SUB]f[/SUB]) of cutting force for a 250 newtons (56 lb[SUB]f[/SUB]) force on the handles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_cutter

Pretty much all types of blade usage will stress the blade to varying degrees varying degrees, and are likely to exponentially increase the forces being applied to the pivot area, as well as the stress on the lock/frame (Thumbstud stop, backstop.).

This is why I don't really understand why people keep complaining about strength related tests -- using a knife, for any purpose, does not *only* exert forces on the blade in a perfect upward angle. As with anything that is affected by physics, there will be more variables than simply upward stress on the blade that will stress or affect the lock, pivot and frame, even during normal use. If you were able to track the different angles that are affected by significant stress after using a knife for an extended period of time for a normal cutting task, it'd probably say something like 80% of the stress was put on or near the upward blade angle, and the remaining 20% would be a combination of every other angle.

 

[jdk1]

There is "serious" and then there is more serious.

Beyond that you get into "Seriouser"

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Beyond that you get into "Seriouser"

"Seriouser" is hard to top.
I'm the seriousest about that. Honestestly! (or honestliest?)